…. 2012
And now, finally, the pitching has let the team down. Lincecum, in his last two starts has given up 11 runs. Cain in his last two has given up 7 runs. Vogelsong has seen his ERA go up by .8 runs over the last three weeks. The once unbeatable bullpen has failed several times since the start of August.
Asking the pitchers to throw shutouts game after game, has finally ended any aspirations of repeating as champs.
62 Responses to “…. 2012”
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It is not just what you know, its who you know as we all know. Except the guys that kept signing Sabean and Bochy to extensions. All of Sabean’s contemporaries from the mid-90s are not in a position help him anymore. A perusal of his deals since 2002 will confirm that. His trades, aside from the disasterous Nathan Liriano deal have been pretty much ineffetual. His f/a signings have been very substandard. The kids have been drafted, signed, developed under the tutelage of Dick Tidrow, John Barr, Bobby Evans, and the minor league system including Steve Decker, manager in Fresno.
Sabean never had any use for the farm system as he stated repeatedly. It was never his forte, after his scouting days were over and he got kicked into the Yankee front office. The game has changed in the 15 years hes been GM.
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20110924132917157
All you need to know about Sabean is that in 2010, in response to why they weren’t calling up Posey, he essentially said that AAA stats are difficult to determine whether or not a player is going to be worthwhile. Then he signed Pat Burrell, who had a recent couple of down years, put him in AAA to determine if he still had the skills.
How is nearly a whole season worth of AAA stats not good enough for Posey and five whole days is good enough to evaluate Burrell?
(Not to mention the unsaid assumption that since the PCL is a hitters league, the pitching isn’t especially good. So that Bumgarner guy must be terrible!)
A seemingly complete inability to properly assess hitters is going to cost this club long term success. You can’t put that offense on the field and expect to win. (Compete long enough and put butts in the seats, yes.) I really believe that winning the World Series last year has done more harm than good for this club. It raised expectations and convinced many people (fans, at least and management, probably) that they were good enough to repeat.
By reading we enrich the mind, by conversation we polish it.
Found this site on Google, and I just needed to say that I appreciated the info! Must have taken a long time to build this blog. How do you find the time?
After way too much research I can now tell you that the ownership committee is made up of real estate investors, trust funds, the children of investors, third parties, media hucksters and Giants fans who have absolutely no real life baseball experience.
They are now running the show.
Ask yourself how many years did Baer play in the major leagues. Or Sabean? NO years? So what business do they have running a major league baseball team?
Get ready for more bobble head giveaways and fireworks, because when it comes to baseball BASEBALL the guys in charge are good at giving away bobble heads, buying real estate and setting things on fire.
They don’t know shit about baseball.
I believe they all depend on Brian Sabean to take care of that part of their amusement park.
I too am a Giants fan.
I believe that +Mia would back me up when I say
FUCK WE ARE FUCKED
The Giants are owned by people who want to make money, don’t care about winning, and who have put
Baer and Sabean in charge of the team.
Does that sound like a recipe for disaster to you too?
nuke played hs ball, and that is all
what nuke did, and what the rest of the board chose not to do, was he spent his time learning everything about the org from the top to the bottom…..
nuke went to richmond and fresno last year….sent other org guys to the other farm towns
spent every home game sitting at the batting cages…talked to all the players
he reorganized the corporate structure and the philosophy of the org
changed how the org viewed both the draft and the farm system
his vision is paying dividends
if you wanna know what happens to orgs that make drastic changes for no apparent reason…take a look at monte poole’s article in the merc…doesnt bode well for the giants
and if, as many hacks are speculating, this has anything to do with trina burns’ husband….then look for the giants to quickly become the niners
I haven’t heard about this except from you. Please feed me links.
With your help I will become really depressed.
Why didn’t I become an A’s fan as a child? I’m FROM Oakland. But my father, my grandfather, my mother, my grandmother, no they said. No. Thou shalt be a Giants fan. Then they rubbed me with oil, smudged me with ash, dipped me in spit and made me repeat. I am a Giants fan. I am a Giants fan. I am a Giants fan.
My grandfather used to watch the Giants on black and white TV with a transistor radio plugged into his ear and his head would tilt back as he dropped into sleep and he looked like he might be dead. But the next day he knew the score and who had done what. At the age of eight I’d been playing hardball for three years and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Giants, Jesus, and fucking were somehow inextricably linked.
Gaylord Perry also figured in there somewhere. And the word Mother came up too. The words came up frequently and they were arranged in many ways, but they were holy words. Holy also came up.
That’s how I knew what they were saying was holy. And that my church was baseball. Amen.
The best thing that has happened today: Fly ball, right to Beltran. He didn’t even have to take a step.
As a child I believed in the Dodgers. I know, I’m ashamed*. But then I found the light. I’m an apostate.
I became a Giants fan. I have believed in them for four decades. But my faith is now shaken. I think daily about moving to St. Louis, where there may be the true god.
I’m not moving to Philadelphia. Screw that. But St Louis has a strange appeal.
*My dad thought he should be a Dodgers fan since he lived in L.A.
He is dead, but not forgiven. He never took me to a ball game. He never came to my ball games. We never had a game of catch. How did this happen? His father used to haunt the Polo Grounds.
My guess? He was an evil man.
Epic !
http://www.mercurynews.com/monte-poole/ci_18907560?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com
“The perspective of winning is foremost, tantamount and always will be.”
Baer is all smoke and no fire. He burps buzz words. Re-read that sentence and ask yourself what kind of asshole talks that way.
He’s the new skipper. A guy with an MBA from Harvard and a background in marketing.
He’s also held this position once before, briefly, between Magowan and Neukom. Now they have eliminated the managing general partner position. Why do you think they did that?
Win the world series then force out the managing general partner, make him sell his shares and drive him out. It’s all about money. They wanted to pocket it and he wanted to spend it on the team.
Then a shill from the marketing department says “No. No. It was all a communication thing.” and I’ve smelled better farts than that explanation. Good luck, San Francisco Giants fans. Good luck.
Baer, Sabean and Bochy, the new three stooges. Buy a hat and watch the Giants loose. As long as you buy the hat.
baer attended lowell, uc and harvard and doesnt know the diff between tantamount and paramount
winning is paramount, not tantamount
tantamount means equivalent
Uncle Joe, that’s a good guess but you may be giving him too much credit. It does rhyme and your version actually makes sense.
My theory was that Baer was just spouting polysyllabic gibberish. Wouldn’t be the first time. But your explanation is very persuasive.
Am I the only person disgusted by Beltran’s demand for a better offense in order for him to resign? Granted, he’s right, the team needs to upgrade the offense badly, but for a man who was brought here to be the savior, the wheels fell off as soon as he walked through the door. It’s not his place to be pointing that out, not to mention him discounting Buster’s return next season. Yes, we need offense, but Beltran has no business talking about it.
That said this was an extremely painful collapse and it’s hurt even more by the livening of the bats now that everything is out of reach. The pitching staff was better this year than last, they were ready and able to defend. We will finish with 4 pitchers in the top 15 of era yet no one will sniff the wins leads. It’s sad because give this staff last years offense and we’re cruising to the playoffs and Timmy would be contending for his third Cy Young.
Oh well, good thing I bought the DVD of last years world series, it still feels great, but not defending definitely hurts
Beltran is not a good fit with the Giants.
His bad knees and lack of speed make him unqualified to play right field at AT&T Park. He will turn 35 next year and he’s not getting any faster.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to recall that he insisted he play right field. Now he is setting conditions for his re-signing. Let him go, by all means.
Beltran has reached that stage in his career where he would be a valuable designated hitter, a position rarely found on National League rosters. His price tag, his arrogance and inability to play his position defensively should make letting him go to free agency a no-brainer.
I totally agree, he wasn’t looking to fit in and help us to win from the moment he got here. If he was he would have shifted to left and not throw off the mojo of our ::then:: 2nd best hitter in nate. Nate went from hitting .290 to .270 as soon as he was thrown into left, and Beltran didn’t exactly justify the move.
A 35 year old who hurts himself swinging the bat is clearly breaking down. Bringing Beltran back would just be throwing good money after bad and I hope Sabean does the right thing, make it look like we want him but let someone else pony up and deal with Boras.
Thank our lucky stars then that Boras wants a 5 year deal and Baer is the new GM. Beltran is not getting more than a 2 year from the Giants.
I would like to see Bochy gone. Or whomever is sticking people like Cabrera in the lineup.
Had Beltran been another Bat Pat (personality), we may not have dropped so many games after his arrival, I agree. Seems this team “might” spend on a CF’er, not much else.
I would trade lincecum – what about for Ellsbury + additional players/prospects to make up the diff? I just don’t see Lincecum sticking here, nor do I see his body holding up more than 2-3 more years. He is at absolute peak value right now… Cain is a bulldog and will be in the league pitching in 10 years, we need to keep him at all costs, along with bumgarner.
I agree that Lincecum is valuable, but I recall that as a child I took a bunch of silver dollars from my father’s coin collection and bought a bunny. I’m ashamed to tell you this story, but I’m afraid that the Giants front office might buy a bunny too.
think it cant get worse? think again
http://www.mercurynews.com/mark-purdy/ci_18895752?source=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
neukom is out…baer in
say goodbye to timmy and cain
say hello to never seeing another ws in your lifetime
So the team is going to be run by a committee. That is bad news.
Its the “my turn” management style for running a sports franchise. Does this mean they will finally dump Sabean? NO.
I know the entire kerfluffle was about dumping Rowand/Tejada. Meaning Zito stays on the roster 3 more years.
Does anybody in their right mind think for one minute that New York Yankee fans would tolerate a “Giants” offense. Or even Sabean’s methodologies? for more than half a season, before burning Yankee Stadium to the ground? Even with the studly pitching staff put together by Bobby Evans, Dick Tidrow, John Barr and the scouting and player development people?
I didn’t think so.
E: I tried to sign up to comment on your website but never received a password email. Might account for the low number of comments.
Robert
LOL Robert. I have comments shut off. I am not interested in what anybody else thinks or has to say. J/k Thanks for the heads up. Let me see if I can fix it. It’s a pretty clunky blogging engine the links disappear after a couple of weeks. I think Brian Sabean designed it, but like Brian, I am just kind of used to it.
I’ll pop back and let you know.
Thanks
E
i started at lowell about a year after baer graduated
they def had standards to get in…but once you were in, the college prep was all “kill or be killed”
2 examples
my ap chem class…the teacher never taught….he sat in the back of the room eating donuts an drinking coffee, while his ta taught everything….
my freshman math class was taught by a psycho….by the second week, 90 percent of the students had dropped the class
know what i learned during my year in lowell? the students that succeeded were the ones who learned how to cheat the best
marketing genius? really
tell me…during his years as the head of marketing, while the team was at the stick, how much did he increase attendance?
and really…how hard did he have to work to fill seats, once the team moved into the belle?
nice guy? yup…if you think its nice leaking dusty’ irs probs and setting krueg and alou to lose their jobs being nice
baer is a survivor…skills he learned at lowell….improved at cal, and honed while working under tisch at cbs
survivors dont take the lead…dont stick their necks out…dont write manifestos….they keep their cushy jobs
how come baer aint taking the fall for one of his employees being able to almost get away with embezzling 1.5 mil
I started at Skyline a year after Tom Hanks. But I can’t fucking act.
I don’t think anybody in OBM called the guy a marketing genius. Hack, yes.
Shill, yes. Front man, perhaps.
A guy that should be running the show? I don’t think so. He was there briefly between Magowan and Neukom. A place holder. That’s how I would characterize him.
The Giants should hire Matt Williams and make him their manager.
The ownership committee need real baseball people and they could not do better than Matt Williams. Look at what Arizona has done in the last year.
Remember Matt? He was always at 100%. And now that he’s been coached up I think we ought to grab him back. Screw Arizona.
A Giants team with Matt Williams as their manager. Wishful thinking or really perfect.
They NEED a baseball man.
A quick not make the comment things work.
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20110917134136934
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The requested URL /public_html/e@wherehaveyougonejoe.com was not found on this server.
Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS) Server at wherehaveyougonejoe.com Port 80
Strike two.
My public email address is red5ish@yahoo.com
Ain’t the nets a bitch?
Fail
That didn’t work.
I would have a talk with my server if I were you.
Ask why the fuck
I’m sorry John, to be doing this on your page. I do and will still post here. In fact I sent John money, so everybody else who wants to bitch can just stand back.
Getting E right is good. More is better.
I know. This point of the season sucks as a fan. I’m sure most of you are all about the 49ers right now and you should be. This Giants team has underperformed this entire season. There is always next year…it will be here before you know it…
This and That for the smart guys that hang out here. I can handle failure. 29 teams “fail” every year. Lack of success one year can help justify anticipation for the next year.
There are two things I find intolerable in any business. In any institution. In any employer and particularly in fan based team sports that are supported primarily by the ticket buying public and the cable subscribers who are part of the team’s broadcast market whether they watch game or not.
1. And that is tolerating on field failure by the same people doing the same wrong things repeatedly.
2. Misrepresenting the causes of those failures; blaming only lower down the ladder peripherally responsible parties such as rookie pitchers, pinch-hitters, hitting coaches, injuries and bad luck for the failures of upper management, And in the Giants case, the General Manager. A general manager who in spite of all current evidence to the contrary, still tries to acquire position players that are clearly inferior based upon out-dated information and out-dated criteria.
Brian Sabean has an uninterrupted string of seven consecutive years of the worst offensive performance by a San Francisco Giants team since they arrived here in 1958. This follows the ten best years standings wise accomplished during Baker’s years with a two year gap (2003-2004) separating the two eras.
Disgraceful and worse, is the nausea inducing commentary from former “telling it like it is” and hard nose Giants play-off pitcher Mike Krukow. What a sell-out. Disgusting.
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20110911171049181
im trying to figure out what the giants sabermatricians actually do…cuz it has nothing to do with evaluating talent
While I am totally up for criticizing the team’s choices of free agents and their decisions to play senior citizens, I don’t think that they can be faulted for their public relations or for spinning everything as positively as they can.
I was thinking last night about how very very expensive running a major league team must be, what with chartered planes, chartered buses, hotels, food, payroll, mortgage, minor leagues, field crews, security, it must add up to a lot of scratch. The payroll for players and coaches must exceed $120 million dollars.*
There is no room in the budget to pay people to say “We suck, don’t come to the games, don’t watch us.” No business can afford that.
Bitching and moaning about your favorite team is part of the great American pastime. Long may it wave. But expecting the organization to criticize itself or do anything but try to generate money and inspire fans is unrealistic. You have to come here for that.
*http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/san-francisco-giants_30.html
I am really enjoying seeing the young players. I feel a bit of hope.
Carlos Beltran in right field is a disaster, of course, bad knees, can’t cover the ground. Left field maybe.
But I like to see the AAA stars in their new uniforms facing major league panic.
I think there is a good group, good young players.
I don’t feel comfortable about Sabean and Bochy using that talent, but I’m enjoying it while it’s playing.
It seems odd to me that after a season where the Giants won the World Series through an obvious series of flukes including career performances by aging veterans, and the self destruction of the opposition in the division, that they should have bought the contracts of so many happy to want to go out in a blaze of glory veterans.
I said this at the beginning of the season and now at the end of the season. No more old men.
The Giants dumped $14M+ in salary, hard to do. Next thing is to dump Sabean and Bochy.
Mat Williams would make a good manager. I’m sure you could pry somebody out of the RedSox or Yankees if you told them they could be the GM.
Thank goodness for last season. Without it, it would have been the seven worst years in the history of the San Francisco Giants following on top of Dusty Baker’s 10 best consecutive years.
Not even the laughable Cubs have been as pathetic as the Giants offense and that is the only big market team to come close to the pathological disgrace that Sabean has created with position players year in and year out.
I don’t think the asshats in Houston and Kansas City are that incompetent for so many consecutive years.
Sabean has been GM since 1997. It was clear that within a couple of years of Baker’s departure, he had no sway with any damn position players worth more than two wooden nickels.
Fifteen years is seven years too long. Time for Neukom, Baer and the board to kick Brian upstairs or sideways or into retirement or join Aaron Rowand and Tejada and Alfonso, Benitez Vizcaino, Ricky Lede, Mark Sweeny, Dave Roberts, Ryan Klesko, and the rest of the clowns from the Gilligan’s Island laugh track over at Dominos delivering bad pizza. He just has to go.
No wonder the players dress quickly and run out of the clubhouse after the game. Even they are embarrassed by now. Shameful and disgraceful for a supposed defending World Champion. I can’t think of so many players I cannot stand on a post-season team.
Bring back the pitching staff, Posey, Sandoval, and Belt. Three-strikes the rest with a lifetime ban from baseball for their criminally negligent display of apathy, stupidity and physical retardation.
I guess that about covers it all.
I thought last night seemed familiar.
The fans in 1959. Pretty incredible. I dont’ remember the way people spoke back then sounding peculiar though compared with today’s speech patterns.
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20110910105938812
Oh yeah. This wasn’t the first year of bitter pills either. And the fans were less tolerant then too.
sabean and his fo brain trust, including the sabermatricians are the worst judges of fa talent in the majors
this has been proven time and again
last year was a fluke in terms of the pickups doing anything of note
this year, they all reverted to who they really are….less than avg
ive been typing my above post since 2005, so i am as insane as sabean…an playing a young team will never happen with bochy as manager
they dont have the patience to allow the kids to come into their own
so while vets are allowed to struggle all season long, the kids, who we are told are the future, are jerked around and treated like yo yos
a clear message has been sent to the kids in the farm system….perform like allstars, or you have no shot in hell of getting consistent play with the giants
can anyone show me another club that works this way? not the atl
i didnt expect this team to repeat…it is an almost impossible feat
i did expect them to make a run…even with injuries
dont tell me the team that was 17 games above 500 was lucky…thats horseshit…there is no real luck in sports…that team had something….and sabean killed that something with his deadline moves
season is done, and i really hold no hope for next season…or the season after…until there is regime change
I have to say, these Giants gave us a lifetime’s worth of memories last September, October AND November. If you’re a grateful fan, you gotta stay with them until they’re eliminated, mathematically. This specific opinion notwithstanding, in general Sabean had a terrible year. Horrible. He broke up the team early and often, forgetting that team mojo was a big part of why we made it to the playoffs last year. (Yes, I know, the pitching staff won the playoffs, but you have to get to the playoffs, and Huff’s 85 RBIs and Uribe’s 85 RBIs, and EVERYONE else’s clutch hitting, got us there.) But even with the awful performances this year, and the injuries, and the disastrous personnel moves — the Giants are still in it w/ three weeks left in the season. That’s a testament to the players on the field. If Boche would play his gut again instead of worrying about who Sabean brought over, we might still have a chance. The kids played great last night, Pill and Surkamp, and the Giants have a lot of good, young talent. So everyone should just chill out on the Giants. My daughter and I will be in the bleachers this Sunday against the hated Dodgers. Hate LA! Hate LA!
it was a fun season.
a shame that such a wonderful pitching performance, top to bottom, starters and relievers, over five months was squandered. injuries is only an excuse; full seasons from panda and posey could not have overcome the .230 averages all around the rest of the diamond. even though he doesn’t walk enough the drop off from freddie sanchez to keppinger is negligible compared to the abysmal production from the three corner positions not manned by panda.
the world championship last year, and the numerous injuries this year, are gonna serve as excuses and justification for staying the course, continuing to rely on proven inconsistent hitters in their 30s, for their veteran leadership. i fear the young starting arms and the marvelous bullpen will again be left to put up 0s, 1s and 2s for the majority of giants victories again next year.
hope i am wrong. hope neukom is a dynamic leader and decision maker; who recognizes great pitching is a window that doesn’t stay open long.
giants need to have an early season offense to take pressure off the pitching so that they have something left in the tank for the stretch run
bochy needed to stop riding timmy….the kid cannot throw 123 pitch outings
maybe timmy needs to get more serious about conditioning, but he isnt a horse like cain
the main issue is offense
and the reliance on vets
if this org doent get younger and faster, we are gonna see another repeat of up and down years