I’ve read several articles now about the Posey collision, and they all say the same thing, it’s part of the game. A lot of them also assert that it’s always been part of the game, the catcher blocking the plate and the runner blasting into him to try and dislodge the baseball and steal a run. That’s simply not true. Catchers didn’t always have to risk their livelihood protecting the plate. Look at the images of Jackie Robinson stealing home against Yogi Berra in the World Series, to use just one example.
And, really, what kind of argument is that? A second basemen can’t block the base. And the baserunner isn’t allowed to knock the ball out of the first baseman’s glove. Why should a catcher have to sit there and get run into by a 200 pound baserunner with a 90 foot head start? That’s a penalty in football, for crying out loud. Just saying that it’s been done that way is not, and never has been, a reasonable argument for doing anything.
Sure, I’m upset about the Giants losing Posey, and for the fact that his career might be in jeopardy (although recent reports seem to indicate he will be fine). But that doesn’t take away from the fact that that play shouldn’t be part of the game. Catchers already go through enough. There is no reason they should be exposed to that kind of risk. The rules don’t even have to be changed. It’s already against the rules for the catcher to block the plate without the ball, and it’s already against the rules for a runner to try and knock the ball out of a fielder’s hand.
The rules just need to be enforced, and the players need to think about their health a little more.
Giants broadcaster Duane Kuiper was quietly seething in the dugout, calling for change.
“I don’t know how,” he said. “They can figure that out in the Major League Baseball offices. But you can’t just have a guy out there defenseless like that. I stood out there defenseless at second base for 10 years (as a player) until they changed the rules about guys sliding with the sole intent of taking somebody out. So they can change it at home plate, too.”
UPDATE: I’ve now
had a chance to read some more pieces, and see that several writers have echoed my call for a rule change or enforcement. Over at Baseball Prospectus, Corey Dawkins and Ben Lindbergh cite the NCAA rule as a possible precedent for MLB to do something to protect catchers:
…. if the catcher/ fielder has possession of the ball and blocks the path of the base runner to the base (plate), the runner may make contact, slide into, or collide with a fielder as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base or plate. The runner must make a legal slide into or around the glove. Under NFHS rules, a runner cannot dive, hurdle, jump or go over the top of the catcher unless the catcher is prone. He cannot lower his shoulder and barrel over the catcher. As a result of his illegal action if the runner interferes, you have a dead ball and the runner is out.
Under NCAA rules, “When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is in possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge whether the collision by the runner was avoidable (could the runner have reached the base without colliding) or unavoidable (the runner’s path to the base was blocked.)
“If the runner can avoid a collision when the catcher clearly has possession of the ball, the runner is called for interference if he attempts to dislodge the ball without making a bona fide effort to reach the plate”
What’s so hard about that? Again, just because something has been allowed to happen until now doesn’t mean it should be allowed to continue.
Excellent blog, thank you for your awesome posts!
Sweet write-up.
Yes, thank for the details a million! Have to discover anybody organizing Tea Party. I wants to participate in organizing.
Funny, I was discussing this thing with my older sister the other day, now I’ll have one particular much more argument in my hand when it’ll appear to confrontation when once more.
One of the best sites for relevant facts on this niche !?!
It really is good to possess the capacity to examine a great high quality article with practical specifics on topics that plenty are interested on. The stage that the information indicated are all first hand on reside experiences even guide a lot more. Proceed performing what you do as we really like readi?-
It really is good to possess the capacity to examine a great high quality article with practical specifics on topics that plenty are interested on. The stage that the information indicated are all first hand on reside experiences even guide a lot more. Proceed performing what you do as we really like readi?-
Thank you for your well-thought content. I’m really at perform proper now! So I ought to go off with no reading through all I’d like. But, I place your web site on my RSS feed in order that I can read mor
we can do better actually
AZgerfan –
No, absolutely not – Posey was NOT blocking the plate. Cousins went out of the baseline – which is against the rules. And plowed into a catcher without the ball – which is against the rules either way.
Saw a column on Yahoo (Tim Brown, I think) defending, well, coming down on the side it was a legal play. Balderdash indeed. John is absolutely right, the rules don’t even need to be changed. I doubt Cousins had any intention of injuring Posey as badly as he did, so demonizing him is extreme, but the umpires need to call that. By the rules, Cousins should have been out – and if he knew it would’ve been called that way, he wouldn’t have done what he did.
Reminds me of something Bill James, I think, wrote about the Merkle boner – it’s a rule or it’s not a rule. If the umps never call it, what do you expect the players to do?
This is not rocket science. It’s all already there.
I don’t know where these people get away saying Posey was blocking the plate.
He wasn’t. He was well in front of the plate. A part of one leg was on one side of the plate, but the plate was easily visible in every direction except from the pitcher side – which is where Posey was sitting. This includes from directly above.
If indeed a catcher is sitting on home plate or between 3rd base and home plate, the runner’s got to do what the runner’s got to do.
This wasn’t the case. Cousins could easily have slid or touched home plate without slamming into anyone.
Was the play illegal? No.
Was the play dirty? Quite possible.
I don’t think there is any question that Cousins had made the decision to slam into the catcher no matter what. He diverted away from the basepath in order to launch head first into Posey.
I am sure he didn’t intend to end Posey’s season – but the reality is that the decision Cousins made was dangerous and a bad one.
Posey put himself in that position. When a ball is thrown from the right side, the catcher stands away from the plate and once he has the ball then covers home. I should know I was once catcher and yes, I got run over a few times. Good catchers are the field leaders. Hope he recovers.
Behind in the top of the 11th inning? No problem, turn off the lights.
Let me be one of the first to say that the St. Louis Cardinals should be fined.
While I am what might be described as an old school baseball fan who resists and deplores any rule change, I’ve read many opinions about the collision and consequently my opinion has matured.
I don’t have any objection to the rules being modified to make the game safer, as in the example of the NCAA rules. I would like to see a complimentary enforcement of the obstruction rule with regard to catchers: The catcher, without the ball in his possession, has no right to block the pathway of the
runner attempting to score. The base line belongs to the runner and the catcher should be there only
when he is fielding a ball or when he already has the ball in his hand.
Any change in the rules should maintain balance in the game and catchers who have been taught to ‘block the plate’ would have to do so within the limits of the existing obstruction rules or suffer the consequences (i.e. The Umpire’s judgement call that the runner was safe due to obstruction). You can imagine the arguments over these judgement calls.
I believe that the NCAA rules would have required Cousins to attempt a sweeping slide around Posey in this case, but there would still be collisions from time to time which would be legal even within the scope of the modified rules, but any reasonable rule modification that would reduce the chances of player injuries should be considered, particularly relating to the most dangerous play in baseball.
While the ruling on the field about the Cousins – Posey collision was correct, it was, in my opinion, an unnecessary collision and a bonehead move by Cousins.
I also think that maple bats should be banned as they significantly increase the risk of injury to fielders and spectators, but that is a whole different subject.
“I also think that maple bats should be banned as they significantly increase the risk of injury to fielders and spectators, but that is a whole different subject.”
But you just know Selig is not going to push this until one of these things gores somebody on the field. The things are almost as bad as the aluminum-titanium petrie dish abominations that have oozed out of Worth, Hillerich and Bradsby, Mizuno and some of the other bat companies that have baseball officials all over the country on the take.
Since the Cubs’ Tyler Colvin was in fact impaled by a bat shard and seriously injured last September it’s obvious that MLB is dragging its feet on this issue. Rules about what constitutes allowable equipment seem to me to be much less problematic. Now we have batting helmets, there are restrictions on the size of fielder’s gloves, when protective gear may be employed by batters, etc. I think banning maple bats would be a no-brainer after all the evidence we’ve seen of them shattering and spraying the infield with long sharp splinters.
Is MLB getting kickbacks from manufacturers? No evidence to support that so cannot say. I think there is a lot of consensus over banning maple bats, but again, no survey or facts to back that up.
I speculate that MLB is slow to ban maple because the bats result in more hitting and thus increase the audience appeal of the game. In other words, they have a profit motive for leaving the maple bats in the game.
Its called “sponsorship” The bat and shoe companies own every coach in Divison I. Thats why they’re still using aluminum.
Metal bats are what keeps the cash registers jingling. Little league parents dropping 200 bucks and up on titanium light sabers. Its pretty corrupt and has been for years.
It appears that Mike Matheny has some thoughts to share on the Buster Posey take-out. And I don’t think Cousins is going to be around long enough (he’s a marginal player at best) for the Giants to even things up when they get to Florida in August.
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20110531071936516
No good has come of this. None. There is no defense for an incident that is 100 percent minuses. Especially when the guy with the final word is Bud Selig. i.e. All Star Madness, The avoidable scandal of steroids, the cancellation of the 94 World Series. Selig doesn’t care unless its about money in/out of his personal pockets, and if he sees no threat to his pockets, there will be no rule change, just happy talk about tradition, toughness, and the usual don’t-mess-with-my-cashflow-mentality out of the MLB offices.
ok…since no one wants a rule to be instituted at home (its not a rule change…there are no rules about what can be done at home plate….take a look at what fielder did to greene for a good example) i would suggest that all rules instituted since the mlb formed, revert back to their original standing
will make for a very exciting game
and someone like cousins, who doesnt know how to slide to avoid a tag, should not be in the majors
and i dont care if he grew up a giants fan or played at usf…he is a career scrub
right on john look at fielder’s attempt to reach home last night
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20110527081906148
Good to see you perkin’ up John. I’m a little more vocal and a lot more outraged by this then you. I’ve been hating on this for years for a lot of the same reasons you point out and more.
I want to clarify something I said earlier, “that’s baseball”…whatever side of the equation you are on, this IS part of the game BECAUSE the rules allow it. Getting plunked is part of the game as well, but it doesn’t mean whipping 90 plus MPH pitches at someone’s head is cool, there’s a rule for that…I’m not sure about all the commentary on Cousins and this and that, but from a pure baseball perspective there is no question about it, they need to change the rules…I agree 100%. Not only is contact allowed, but guys, full on spearing is allowed, full force shoulder into the catcher’s torso spearing, even if Posey fielded it clean and lowered his shoulder, he might have lost that battle…But I won’t hold my breath, the “old-schoolers” will frown on taking the toughness out of the game, and don’t depend on the Interim Commissioner For Life to do anything, not from the guy who thinks the winner of the all star game’s league get WS home field advantage.
A straightforward must slide, no contact rule change is the ONLY thing that would have prevented this. You strike me as an old school guy so I know you know, Cousins, like any other MLB’er is taught to break up that play. He does have a clear path to the plate but I think he knew halfway to home, he was going to be hosed…I know everyone has watched the replay over and over, Cousins is out by 10 feet, short hop or not, this is especially clear from the field level shot…I would love to see what the on deck batter was indicating, whether he was motioning for Cousins to get down or not, but that’s pointless I guess. Its an argument that can’t be won on either side, because of the stupid rule, and I think most of the Giants and even Bochy who used to catch agree, it’s not considered a dirty play because a very stupid rule allows it…
I will NOT argue the point of rule change, and was in no way defending Cousins in the previous thread, but unfortunately under current rules, Cousins just did what any of the Giants would have done, guaranteed….
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/2011/05/26/the-latest-on-buster-poseys-condition-and-where-the-giants-stand-now/
Here’s a link to an interview with Posey post collision.
I disagree. Cousins is an inept baserunner and a cheap shot artist.
well said