Another laughable contract, for another laughable retread of a mediocrity. I would say that it’s unbelievable, but it’s not. It’s predictable, it’s embarrassing, it’s what make us a laughingstock of a baseball team, run by one of the worst organizations in all of sports.
…. For several years, Mark DeRosa daydreamed of eventually playing in San Francisco. He enjoys the city’s vibe and atmosphere, from walking to the ballpark to trying out top restaurants.
“I felt like it would be a cool place to play and an interesting place to bring my family,” he said.
For several years, the Giants pictured DeRosa’s powerful bat contributing in the middle of their lineup.
Of course he’s wanted to play in San Francisco forever. It’s one of the few places in all of baseball where your value isn’t measured by productivity, or winning, or being one of the best in the world at what you do. It’s measured by how old you are. And DeRosa sure is old.
So, once again Giants fans are treated to a mediocre, flawed, old player that Sabean has spent years –years– trying to acquire. Once again, Giants fans are treated to a player that no other team –in all of baseball– thought was worthy of a starters salary. Once again, Giants fans are reminded that Brian Sabean is the worst general manager in baseball today.
Brian Sabean works in the Bay Area, a place filled with some of the highest level technologically advanced corporations, organizations and companies; and he runs his team like he is living in the 1950’s. Brian Sabean is a fool, a rube, and so is Bill Neukom. They are made for each other.
Here is the message Brian Sabean has for Giants fans like me and you:
FUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON. I KNOW THINGS YOU DON’T, AND, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NEVER, EVER BUILT A TEAM THAT HAS WON A CHAMPIONSHIP, I AM NOT THE LEAST BIT INTERESTED IN CHANGING ONE SINGLE THING I DO, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN LEARNING, OR BEING BETTER THIS YEAR THAN I WAS LAST.
AND LAST, BUT NOT LEAST, I COULD CARE LESS THAT THERE IS A COORDINATED, THOUGHTFUL CRITICISM OF ME AND MY APPROACH; ORGANIZED BY THOUGHTFUL, CARING FANS THAT HAVE NEVER, EVER, EVEN ONE TIME, SEEN A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM PLAY IN THEIR CITY.
This is a “Fuck you” to you and me, so here’s my response:
Dear Brian Sabean,
Fuck you, too. You are a joke, a laughingstock, an anachronism; a man living in the past, woefully under-prepared for the demands of the modern baseball world. You should be ashamed of yourself for foisting another piece of horseshit player on the people who pay your salary.
Another injured, 35-year old, has-been of a player? Are you out of your fucking mind?
My greatest sadness is that there are enough people who still believe in you, who still fill PacBell, who still show up to support this retirement home, Island of the Misfits team you trot out there year after year; that the owners of the Giants fail to recognize your worthlessness; because, you should be fired, today, right now.
After over 45 years of watching other teams celebrate championships (including teams that didn’t even exist when the Giants moved to San Francisco), other teams draft, develop and support championship-level players while you throw away draft choices and go out of your way to acquire one bum after another…. you should be ashamed of yourself. You and the San Francisco Giants ownership group, –every single one of you– should hang your heads in shame, as you go through the motions, pretending to be interested in ending a drought that has lasted the entire time the team has been in this city.
Your team is a disgrace, and your efforts are a disgrace, and your excuses are a disgrace.
To the Giants fans who come here, I say to you that these are your San Francisco Giants:
An ownership group betraying a legion of loyal fans with year after year of half-assed efforts to field a competitive baseball team. A general manager who thumbs his nose at objective analysis, state of the art statistical knowledge, and thoughtful attempts to properly and efficiently allocate precious resources. And a baseball team managed by a man who thinks effort and professionalism can be brought to bear only by players who are the same age as me.
Support this team at your own risk.
53 Backtalkers
Geez, John, it seems like rooting for the Giants brings you nothing but torment these days. In the interest of lowering your blood pressure, here is Rob Neyer’s take on the DeRosa signing:
“I was prepared to disparage this deal, but after looking at the numbers I’m not sure that I can. DeRosa was terrible after joining the Cardinals last summer, but even with the injury he was still worth more than $6 million over the whole season. Throw in his versatility, and it’s hard to see a two-year, $12 million contract as any sort of blunder. ”
“The arrival of DeRosa — assuming he plays third base — will necessarily push Pablo Sandoval to first base, and Travis Ishikawa to the bench or another team. I was hoping Ishikawa would get one more chance with the Giants, but considering his struggles with the bat and Panda’s struggles with the glove, it’s hard to fault the Giants for making the switch.”
I dont think it is DeRosa per se. It is all the DeRosas over the years. It is the accumulation of refuse such as DeRosa, Sanchez, Finley, Alfonso, Renteria, Uribe, Aurillia, Roberts, in the aggregate, year after year. It is the never-ending parade of garbage contracts floating around in McCovey Cove like a storm drain overflowing with raw sewage.
It is what Sabean is firing out, in the face of Giants fans, like projectiles of regurgitated salted cod. Self described “Plan B” homeless has-been major leaguers, looking for a hand-out in a city famous for hand-outs and sanctuary for useless non-contributors who live off the largess of others.
Baer hired Sabean. Without Baer, Sabean has no job. Baer and and Gavin Newsom are big asshole buddies. They both cater to useless, nipple-swinging bums who never had a prime. The Giants reflect well the politics of San Francisco. Faking it with other peoples’ money, while they sit in the front row, preening for the cameras.
Like John writes: Sabean acts like, talks like, walks like, and smells like “fuck you!”
Like me, John is sick of this shit.
And anybody who knows what the fuck they’re looking at, and wants the Giants to succeed, should be sick of this shit too.
What “struggles with the glove” are you referring to? Panda made a bad error one time, in one game. He did fine with the glove considering the Giants handled him so poorly, moving their franchise hitter from one spot to the other continuously.
I mean, just think about that for a minute. The Giants finally get a real hitter to come up out of their system, and instead of just putting him in one position, in the field and in the lineup, the jerk him around all season long, moving him up and down in the lineup, and from one side of the diamond to the other. This is THE BEST HITTER TO COME OUT OF THEIR SYSTEM SINCE WILL CLARK.
Oh, and to add in insult to injury, they complained about how fat he was the minute his outstanding season ended. This is just one more indication of how poorly run this organization really is. They publicly humiliate the first real hitter they’ve developed in two-plus decades. Really?
That’s amazing to me, and it hardly bodes well that they’ve just signed one more retread to move him around again.
panda was indeed overweight, which if not dealt with, could easily shorten his career
thing is…he was overweight thanks to how poorly the milb system is run
the giants and other teams run their farm systems like they are still in the early 20th century
for a few dollars more, each team could be outfitted with a nutritionist, and the players per diem could be upped
the guys get fat cuz they are forced to eat shit
but ya…panda was indeed jerked around
who did sabean get to give neyer the bj?
what a load of crap
de rosa is a 35 year old utility guy….you dont pay 35 year old utility guys 6 mil to do anything….
when this decade began, i was stoked about the org….
new ballpark (the best in all of baseball) the best player to ever play the game and a gm who seemed to know what he was doing (despite krueger’s protestations regarding the lack of development from the farm system)
i truly believed that sabean had a plan, post-bonds….i was wrong….he didnt
the days of being able to find pieces for what ails the giants are long gone….this isnt a team with a superstar who can make those around him better…this is a team that needs a brand new philosophy and outlook….both which wont come until sabean and bochy are gone
de rosa is a bochy player…a guy who will play anywhere and do anything and be happy about it….prob is…..he sucks ass…who cares what he did 2 years ago….who cares if he showed power in band box parks…he is gonna be playing half his games in the belle, and his power will be gone
who cares if he can play any position….weve got guys in the milb who can do the same…and for a tiny percentage of what sabean is dishing out to de rosa
im not gonna get angry….there aint a point
its just sad that sabean refuses to make any significant changes in his philosophy regarding the game….he is on the verge of becoming the mlb’s version of al davis
DeRosa is a fine signing, assuming you needed a fill in to play 3B and bat 7th on a otherwise playoff bound team. He has played above average at the bat the last three years (OPS+ over 100) and that is worth quite a bit. However, it’s quite silly on a team that needs a major impact bat to make the difference.
It’s telling when the quote of your new player is (paraphrased) “I’m just happy that I’m not the Giants Plan B”.
I think it’s telling that DeRosa was “Plan B”, and not “Plan C” or “Plan D”. If PLan A is/was Bay or Holliday (in this weak free-agent market) and DeRosa was considered to be Plan B, by playoff-caliber teams, like Rob Neyer said, it’s hard to fault the Giants.
On the other hand, I watch baseball because it’s a family friendly sport where I can take my wife and kids for an enjoyable if a little expensive afternoon /evening in a beautiful park in a beautiful city. Not because I’m promised a trip to the World Series every season, not because the SFG are blessed with a world-class management team, I don’t need perfect execution or anything near it to just turn on CSN BA (hopefully in HD) and enjoy the game, even if they’re losing.
I’m happy to support this team, and I don’t think there’s too much risk involved.
You are exactly the kind of person Baer caters to. Affable and detached. More into the ballpark experience rather than competing for championships. Smile for the fancam. Smirk and point at ball dudes everytime they fall off their stools.
“Isn’t this great honey?” Great views, Great City. Aren’t we great people? We rock. We are enlightened enough to not put too much stock in winning. Life should be about equality and joyous children, sunshine, seals, panda bears, teddy bears and feeding poor people. And we don’t mind spending money perpetrating this fraud, because, well because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Ain’t life grand?…and while you’re at it, please pass me my blackberry/iphone, brie cheese platter and nine-dollar yuppie beer”
Idiot. Go to the fucking zoo. Its cheaper.
Ahhh, poor guy. Did the mean baseball people ruin your life again? I feel bad for you, I really do. Are you crying because it costs you most of your paycheck to sit in “View Reserve Left Field” a couple times a year? I guess you think everyone who is a ‘true fan’ should vote with their feet, stop going to the ballpark, stop watching games on tv, stop buying SFG stuff, stop “supporting the team” until the changes you want are implemented. Oh yeah, that’ll definitely work.
I’d like to put a lot of stock in winning, but once the “Brian and Bruce Show” was given a 2 year contract extension I realized that I would have to find something else about the Gigantes to appreciate. You aren’t going to see the SFG field a playoff caliber team for the next 2 years, as long as Sabean is the GM. Get used to it. You’re going to be bitching and crying next year at about the same time about some other signing that you don’t agree with. So set down your can of lukewarm Coors, the cheeze-wiz of beers, and try to get outside once in awhile for some fresh air. Try the zoo.
If you’re going to be sarcastic, at least try something a little more original. The difference between twaddle-fucks like you and people like us is that paying good money to get fucked in the ass by smarmy inherited-wealth trust fund pukes like Baer and company is not something we consider to be “good family fun.”
We’re just not the kind of folks that think buying blocks of “Cross-dressing Baboon Heritage Night” game tickets is a viable alternative to winning championships. And if you are, we are not ever going to have much in common when it comes to professional baseball. But if you want to advocate the ballpark experience as an ends, you are more than welcome to enjoy Giants baseball at that level. There are hundreds of thousands like you.
Obviously that experience works for folks who are using discretionary dollars for amusement purposes only. Fans like you seem to be no different than the tour buses driving up and down Haight Street ogling street people and other forms of human refuse–just killing time, in school, in a job, just trying to find meaning in contemplating one’s navel never striving for much, except to feel good about one’s self…as if “feeling good” was a goal and not a byproduct of worthy and ambitious endeavors.
Nobody is going to ban you. But you are open to ridicule by people who have been around this game a long time and who have seen it from the inside out and have different perspective than people like you.
I am a fan of the Giants as an institution. The current ownership and the current management tools that work for the ownership are temporary stewards who control the cash flow and the real estate. And that is it. Nothing more. They are greedy, and in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential fools. When they are gone, they will be little remembered and little noted save for the building on 3rd street. But even that will be temporary. Even Yankee Stadium is no more. So they are temporary, yet irritating and annoying fodder for folks like me who hold them up for the ridicule they so richly deserve.
But. The problem is not necessarily the fools, tools and egomaniacs that run the organization. It is the people like you that are indirectly responsible for the continued failures of the Giants. People like you refuse to hold ownership and management accountable. Yet it is people like you who see no problem objectifying players and heaping all kinds of public scorn upon them. That is why I find people like you so contemptible. So shallow. So useless.
Because people like me are convinced that if you are going to enter the arena of competitive, professional sports, than it is worth putting forth your best possible effort with all of the resources at your disposal. Because the people you are competing against are going to make that commitment. And if you don’t they are going to continue to beat you like an unwanted stepchild.
Watching “your team” getting it’s ass kicked may be your idea of money well spent on family entertainment. Year-in. Year-out. But its not mine. And that is why people like you hate the Red Sox. The Yankees. The Dodgers. The Angels. The Phillies. The Cardinals. Because they are successful. Because it is easier to be jealous and envious of successful franchises than it is to hold Giants ownership and management responsible.
And for you to write that I would even suggest something so harebrained and futile as a fan boycott demonstrates that you have no idea who you are writing about or talking to.
You must be a teacher, as your handle suggests. Only a progenitor of the massive failure that is “formal education” in this country could be so shallow and so venal as to think I give two flying fucks about what you or anybody like you does with their money.
…and yes, I must say your command of the English language is impressive indeed. The four letter words use to be impressive, but 25 years in the military and 10 more teaching at the high school level has taken a bit of the edge off the whole shock value of the “shit”s and the “fuck”s. My 9th graders at least have a little style and imagination with their use of the word “fuck”, you are a little boring.
I generally agreed with your comment in your original post about how DeRosa just seems to be one more bad contract in long string of bad contracts, but I don’t agree with the statement about support the Giants at your own risk. Unfortunately you digress into the whole personal attack thing, because, uh, well, somebody disagrees with you? You lose me there. Quite a bit of hostility, rancor, bitterness and enmity there, don’t you think Mr. Crankypants? What’s it like to live at your house…?
So many arm-chair GM’s such as yourself like to cry about how bad management is, but the truth is there isn’t anything they could do to please guys such as yourself. They’re criticized for not getting Bay/Holliday, if they get Bay/Holliday they paid too much. They pick up a 2nd tier player, one they can actually afford. Here’s a little hint: if they can afford him, it’s because he’s old and/or hurt. You complain because they picked up a player who’s old and/or hurt. You complain because Neukom won’t open the purse strings, but you have no idea how much is in the purse to start with. Oh, but wait a minute, wait just a minute: we have somebody here who has been around the game a long time! (!) Seen it from the inside out! (!!)
First thing they teach you coming out of OCS is do not take a problem to the commander unless you already have a solution to offer. Because the whole whiner/crybaby/complainer thing gets old fast. Unless you happen to be a true fan of: the Giants as an institution! Wow! Nobody thought of that one before! Dispenser of ridicule to the richly deserving management and owners! Awesome!
Here’s a worthy and ambitous endeavor for you: man up, and try to get over yourself.
Well, thanks for the resume’ Professor Beetle Bailey, but I’m not hiring.
Insofar as solutions, suggestions and alternatives to the current monkey-fuck factory at third and king, feel free to use the little search window over in the left hand margin; you’ll find a minimum of 5 years worth of ideas, and alternative approaches to the past, current, and for the near future, bureaucratic way of running a baseball organization. Alone, there is probably enough material on the peds controversies to garner you a graduate degree in Critical Thinking. You would be doing yourself a favor by getting immersed in some of that material before bouncing around in here like a random fan-boy pinball.
If its conventional wisdom and the bullshit dejour of the SF Baseball Company you’re seeking, I can assure you, you are in the wrong fucking place. If you want pedantic sophistry from the sycophants, you can hang out with the little 15 year old girl down below who pretends to be a former college player if thats what you seek. The internet is full of those places. Just not here.
Here’s one last and final clue for you. Now according to Bob Dupry, Selig’s chief negotiator and hatchet man, Major Leage Baseball in 2007 was a $6 billion industry. And that is what he is admitting to. So add on top of that any amount you want and you will see, that finances are the least of any club’s problems; especially the Giants.
Bigger revenue and more profitable per team capita than the entire NFL.
The San Francisco Baseball Company principals have more assets than any other ownership group in MLB with the possible exception of the Philadelphia Phillies.
MLB spends a lower percentage of revenue on payroll than any of the other major sports.
The Giants have revenue in excess of $200 and payroll of about $82million.
Yeah, the Giants have a stadium debt. But they are using a tremendous amount of fan money to pay off their team purchase as well as the real estate. And they are doing it at the expense of payroll. So instead of supporting a championship caliber team supported by a front office with a commitment to winning, you are happy to spend your money to pay down the loans for the swells who are running this bureacracy.
Have fun living in your make believe world
And you have fun living in yours.
I’m going to let all the fine folks over here on OBM get back to carrying the weight of the Giants on their shoulders, but the whole piss party thing isn’t working for me. Bottom line is Sabean is here for a couple more years like it or not. Neukom just took over, I’m sure he’s got the reins for more than two more years, like it or not. That means you guys are pissing in the wind. Good luck with that.
I have to admit: what was I thinking? After all, the title is Only Baseball Matters. Y’all are definitely maxing out on the sincerity points.
The typical snot-nosed little brat response I would expect from somebody who is used to unchallenged bullying, with authority not earned, but granted by bureaucrats.
I use four letter words for emphasis because they communicate precisely and exactly the utter contempt for which I hold the unsolicited and rudely insinuated opinions of fucking jerks like you.
Using four letter words for emphasis to enhance precise communication. Yeah. Sure. Could be. Could be just because you are a jerk, but yeah, could be for communication purposes.
I would say that you are the one used to the unchallenged bullying. I mean, I have merely suggested that I am a fan of the SFGs, win, lose or draw, and you haven’t stopped ranting yet.
All of the unsolicited opinions have come from you. My original comments were to the author of “…same old, same old”, not you. I’m only responding back to you because you addressed me first.
i agree with +mia
you want a family friendly experience watching ball? go to an milb game…you will save a ton of caishe too
but continuing to support a team that treats you like crap aint the way to go
Why is it folks over here are obsessed w/ saving cash, and not supporting the team? dodgers fans.
first, if you havent noticed, we are in an economic downturn, so most of us are much more careful in how we spend
second, if you love baseball…go watch games where all the guys are there for the love of the game, and not a paycheck
if you are attending giants games because you love the experience of just sitting in that park….then you are a part of the problem, for you are feeding into the orgs philosophy that it doesnt matter what they put on the field….they will come
Well, I’m a fan of the San Francisco Giants- in order to see them in person, I have to sit in the ballpark, and by the way, it happens to be a nice park. If the Giants happen to lose the day I’m there, I don’t consider it a waste of money. I’m sure that the SFG business model relies on fans to come sit in the seats win or lose. But now I see- those fans are part of the problem.
I’m sure that the ‘org’ is concerned about the product they place on the field, I just don’t think they know how to do that with the resources they are provided. I don’t think they are lacking talent, they’ve just been in the same place for too long. I’m not going to start crying inconsolably when I see that management is apparently following the same pattern that led to a 3rd place finish. I do think that the Gigantes have a lot of talent, but if you were to say that they were performing far above their ability last year and that we have to have a major influx of talent just to maintain position, I wouldn’t argue with you. But that position was after all 3rd place.
The point is imo is that Sabean (and Bochy) have just been given two year extensions. Two years. Two more years. I don’t think that our team is going to improve a great deal, for the next two years. The only way we get into the playoffs is if most of our traditional under-performers have career years.
Now- if you’re trying to tell me that you have a strategy to go on every SFG blog you can find and complain about management so that maybe they get let out of their contracts early, then I can see why you would complain so much. But I don’t think it’s going to work, and I intend to continue going to games and finding something else to like about the Giants besides their standing in the NL West. I didn’t have any hope for the Niners when John York was in charge, and I have little hope for the SFG as long as Sabean is still the GM. But I still intend to support my team.
In other words; a jockstrap. An occupation for which you seem to be well suited.
Another happy satisfied customer of the OBM Employment agency
Ok. I admit it. You got me good with that one. No snappy comebacks here.
Nope, I’ll just have to be content to just sit back and enjoy the complete and utter lack of conventional wisdom and bullshit de jour (sic) as it’s related to the Giants.
“Thank you sir, may I have another?!”
“Second, if you love baseball…go watch games where all the guys are there for the love of the game, and not a paycheck”
You’d best move to some other country then, because every single ballplayer you see out there when you go to a game, on any team, is playing for a paycheck. If you were one of the few hundred or so best players in the world, would YOU play for free?
Where do you think professional ballplayers originate? How many 12 year olds besides Danny Almonte get paid? In this country less than 1% of the people who play this game ever earn a nickel.
Your blog is stupid and redundant. Which is probably why you can stand living in a place like Sacramento. Take your trolling elsewhere. And while you’re at it, take the two stooges whose best rhetorical efforts seem to be of the “neener-neener” variety
I realize responding here will just bring on more caustic, ad hominem bullshit, but…
The original point was made by a commenter who said he was sick of paying money to see players who only played for a paycheck, not for love of the game. This of course assumes that this mindset is exclusive to the Giants (or maybe a few other teams), which is just…wrong. Baseball players are committed to making as much money as they can (and rightfully so), and have been since the beginning of time. You can legitimately criticize the Giants for any number of things, but not this particular complaint, which is just silly.
But by all means, continue to misconstrue my words, attack me with straw men, and call me a troll.
John, Mia, and Joe;
Your guys are just a bunch of broken records with nothing new to say ever. Hate is all you have and I hope you are at least enjoying before the inevitable occurs and it destroys you.
im sorry, but we would like sabean to make at least one move that makes sense….something he hasnt done for over 7 years
Part of being a dedicated fan is grousing about the team with like-minded fans, and this is particularly true of older fans who have been disappointed literally for decades. It is harmless and it is cathartic.
I was a reader of OBM for three years before I ever ventured to post an opinion here. I have found that it is a good idea to know what sort of group of people you are dealing with before jumping in and shooting your mouth off. There is a very high level of baseball knowledge and a degree of sincere frustration that makes this blog unique. This group does not suffer fools gladly.
It appears to me, tedteacher, that you did not take the time or make an effort to acquaint yourself with the serious nature and tenor of the discussion that takes place in OBM before you posted. Years of teaching surely have made you familiar with the undesirability of ill-timed, inappropriate, and uninformed remarks, and the hostility with which they frequently are met; particularly when they run contrary to the general consensus. This is certainly the case in OBM. The archives are available for anybody to peruse. I suggest you do some homework.
In other words, no opinions not conforming to to the wisdom of this cult are welcome here.
Seriously, you read a blog for three years before you posted a comment? You made that statement like that’s impressive, or a good model to follow. Unbelieveable. If my comments are so ill-timed, inappropriate and uniformed, why do you keep responding to them?
Sorry about the whole archives thing, I prefer a little dignity and grace, perhaps even some elegance, with my high-level, serious baseball information. You want me to do some homework in the archives so I can learn how to be a parrot?
I apologize for wandering over to your little blog and posting a couple thoughts. I would have dropped it and not come back if it wasn’t for Moron In Actions’ insistence on reminding me of a juvenile delinquent I have in my 3rd period class.
I believe that had you taken the time to see the standard of analysis typical in this blog you might have been less surprised at the reception you got. But you didn’t. You “parroted” Rob Neyer, an ESPN hack, and then said
You made that statement like that’s impressive, or a good model to follow. You might as well have told a bunch of farmers in a drought stricken region that you enjoyed the lovely sunny weather.
You basically announced that we are all whiners, got into a flame war with +mia (totally predictably, but “man up” as someone once said, you’re not the first and won’t be the last) then offered advice “Here’s a worthy and ambitious endeavor for you….”
I have noticed a tendency in people who are used to giving orders or who teach children to giving such unsolicited supercilious advice to adults. It is an unattractive habit.
I have also noticed a tendency in some people who, once having gotten off on the wrong foot and seeing that they are disliked, do everything in their power to be despised. Inexplicable behavior, but there you are, sir. There you are.
I was simply taking issue with the statement, “Support the Giants at your own risk”. Somehow that’s starting a flame war?
I see that you are quite proud of the “standard of analysis” typical in this blog, however I suggest that it is basically the same stuff that I read in 8 – 10 other places. The whiners want Neukom to spend a lot more money to get an impact bat, even though obviously it isn’t going to happen. I’ve read all the posts going back and forth about the demerits of the DeRosa signing, how much Uribe is/was worth to resign, how much Lincecum gets in his arb hearing and how that affects the budget going forward, is Wilson the best we can do for a closer going forward, how much flexibility we have in setting a lineup but what difference does it make if Bochy is the coach because his lineups are terrible…. etc, etc ,etc.
It’s all great stuff, I read it everyday, I rarely have anything to add because it’s all been written already, generally. But I apologize for wandering over to your little blog here and having the shocking impertinence of writing a comment. I’m trying to extricate myself as quickly as possible and leave you farmers with your smug, arrogant and presumptuous (some would say supercilious) little blog here.
Go Giants!
You’re the typical arrogant insufferable bureaucrat existing on the sidelines of life, pushing around E-1s and 9th graders. You produce nothing but hot air while spending a lifetime collecting government checks, and brow beating sleepy-headed, adolescents who are confined in the morass of stupidity, political correctness, and the dumbfounding, mindnumbing boredom that has become secondary education in this country. You are enmeshed in a bureaucratized institution that caters to the lowest common denominator.
No wonder you support the management of the Giants.
You are all Mario Mendozas and Jose Cansecos
You are an embarrassment. People like you are exactly who Larry Baer has in mind every time he makes a decision concerning the Giants. You are the customer he craves, that piece of the marketplace of consumer buffoonery he wishes to corner. You are a dupe. For you, winning is for chumps. Its about the “experience”. Everybody is a winner. Pass the brie and the Chablis, we are all deserving of wonderfulness simply because we exist. We celebrate our oneness with Global Cabbage. You are fucking idiots.
You do not read. You do not think outside of your comfort zone. I expect little else from someone who heretofore has earned little other than a government check. A world based upon favoritism and seniority, not merit, or accomplishment.
People like me see 3rd place and see failure. People like you see 3rd place and see success. People like you fabricate rationalizations for failure–socially acceptable explanations and excuses for unacceptable performance. You do not comprehend that most people do not like to fail. They do not appreciate failure. And they do not accept failure. But for you, it is abundantly clear that you not only accept failure, you fucking embrace it. It is outside the bureaucratic group-think that you immerse yourself in, to comprehend otherwise. You have been part of institutionalized mediocrity for so many years, you simply do not care anymore. What a waste of human potential.
Since you have never created anything, you cannot come to grips with the reality that handing over money to the coin-tyrants at the San Francisco Baseball Company only enables them to contribute even less to the game from which they reap so much. But a lifetime of collecting government paychecks without accountability will do that.
You refuse to see that people like me would support a smart management team that used all their available resources to winning, not to paying off loans to purchase real estate, and personal property.
You are a waste of a good education, and it is a shame you demand so little from those who abuse your otherwise numbed sensibilities
Your insistence on finding every possible insult you can throw at me based on the limited information (military and high school teacher) you have about me is starting to get hilarious. Robert says the grousing is harmless and cathartic, but I’m afraid you’re going to hurt yourself.
I think if you were to seek professional help they would suggest that you were rife with insecurities, but that’s just an opinion.
I just find it interesting that you have basically criticized the Giants from top-to-bottom, (probably with a lot of exceptions for the talented player/contributors), but the whole ’support the Giants at your own risk’ thing, these guys are all idiots… I don’t see how the current organiztion keeps your interest. It seems like the more every detail you state is true, the less interested you would be. Because, obviously, there isn’t any end in sight. Is there?
Where are the Giants going to stick Mark DeRosa?
While ESPN’s Rob Neyer may not be able to fault the Giants for signing DeRosa, I have no such difficulty. DeRosa is like the fifth guy to bring potato salad to a pot luck: he brings nothing new to the table. Neyer says the most likely position for DeRosa is third base because of Sandoval’s “struggles with the glove”. Let’s take a look at that.
DeRosa’s lifetime fielding avg. at 3B = .955 (311 games).
Sandoval’s lifetime fielding avg. at 3B = .962 (132 games).
DeRosa and Sandoval are much on a par defensively at 3B, but given a choice I would take a 24 year old still honing his abilities at the hot corner over a more experienced 35 year old coming off an injury season. I would also like to see Sandoval develop into the Giants third baseman of the future. DeRosa is not getting younger or quicker, but this is where many expect the Giants to position him. Get ready to hear about ground balls reaching left field past a diving DeRosa. The diving 35 year old coming off an injury season Edgar Renteria is not likely to make DeRosa look any better either.
What about playing DeRosa at first base?
Ishikawa lifetime fielding avg. at 1B = .994 (152 games).
Sandoval’s lifetime fielding avg. at 1B = .985 (26 games).
DeRosa’s lifetime fielding avg. at 1B = .982 (23 games).
Clearly DeRosa is the least experienced and worst defensive first baseman of these three, but he is a better fit at 1B than 3B. If the Giants absolutely must justify the signing of DeRosa by playing him every day to get his bat in the lineup they should play him at first instead of jerking around their young star hitter Sandoval. DeRosa (3165 ab .275 .343 .424 .767) is a better hitter than Ishikawa (445 ab .265 .330 .402 .732). First base is less demanding than third base. Put DeRosa there.
DeRosa in the Outfield?
They could also play DeRosa in RF if they actually believe he could cover that much ground, (possibly on road trips – at AT&T he would be far inferior to the faster younger Schierholtz).
If they play DeRosa in LF they take away the leadoff speed represented by the host of incumbents. In 12 seasons DeRosa has 21 stolen bases and has been caught stealing 15 times. Read my lips: DeRosa is slow. By comparison Fred Lewis has stolen 34 and been caught 12 times over 4 seasons; Eugenio Valez is 31 and 11 over 3 seasons. If DeRosa plays LF who bats leadoff? Rowand? In 9 seasons Rowand has stolen 60 bases and been caught 24 times. I guess he could do it, if he didn’t strikeout so much, but Lewis/Valez is the better choice.
DeRosa doesn’t bring anything new to the table. His ability to improve the Giants’ offense is greatly exaggerated – he is not much of an improvement over the current players. He does block younger players from getting playing time and developing their skills, and he does cost six million dollars a year. His signing probably means the Giants will horse Sandoval over to first base and that they will be looking for a third baseman two years from now, having failed to develop the perfectly good Sandoval at that position. It also does nothing to address the need for power in the outfield or the vacancy at catcher, both of the important issues that urgently do need to be addressed.
Considering that Sandoval was dragged out from behind the plate and moved to 3b and he was overweight, his lightening fast reflexes more than made up for any deficiencies. Said deficiencies being another fabrication of the Giants front office spoon-fed to the dolts in msm to help alibi the acquisition of yet another middle age scrubini to wind down his career over the next 2 years.
And as he learns hitters and his own pitcher’s tendencies and capabilities, he will improve. And as John pointed out, the public humiliation of Sandoval by the public disclosures to the media of his weight issues by Sabean seems just one more jab at the younger players on the Giants. He is more valuable at 3b.
But thats typical of Sabean. Jerk your best player around to accommodate over the hill shitbags like DeRosa and Sanchez and Renteria and Molina. He needs to hire Scott Boras and put an end to this shit if he wants to maximize his career potential.
Like Sanchez, if DeRosa is healthy, he should be a roughly average player. Problem is, if all your starting position players minus Sandoval are average, you’re not really “going for it” like Sabean is apparently trying to do, and you’re going to fall short of the playoffs more times than not, despite the great staff we have.
Simply Not True
7 Average Position Player Starters and Pablo makes an above average position player roster and is plenty good enough to make the playoffs with the near top of the pack if not actually top of the pack pitchers roster that makes up the rest of the team.
You are an idiot.
Is That Really The Best Comeback You Got?
How hard is it to understand that the average of 7 average and 1 well above average is indeed slightly above average?
7 average plus 1 above average obviously does overall make slightly above average.
The only problem here is we do not necessarily have 7 average players to go with Sandoval. Also our pitching would have to be as good as last year, or very close, which while not impossible isn’t nearly as guaranteed as you may seem to think it is.
We won 88 games last year and will need at least that many if not 3-4 more to make the playoffs. At this point we haven’t made up for those 3-4 extra wins needed. yes, you can argue that our “slightly above average offense” will make up the difference but that requires the pitching to remain just as excellent. While I think our starters should perform at a similar level there is no real way of knowing how the bullpen will do, most teams bullpens fluctuate somewhat year to year and ours would be much more likely to regress than to maintain its performance.
Entirely Different Point
And thus not the point made by Aaron B. that I responded to.
You just insulted idiots.
Actually you both just provided significant evidence that you both just might belong in this group you feel was insulted.
I did not grant you permission to talk to me. I don’t talk to trolls or underage girls. We thought you left now that Santa replenished your supply of blow up dolls and inflatable sheep. Guess John forgot to change the locks.
Yeah, I have figured out that you are just way too closed minded to be willing to listen to any opinion that does not 100% conform to your biases that you defend with so much unwarranted self righteousness
GRM,
Our rotation goes something like this, optimistically:
Tim: 8 WAR
Matt: 4 WAR
Sanchez: 2.5 WAR
Zito: 1.75 WAR
5th starter: 1 WAR
That’s 17.5 WAR. Add 14 WAR for 7 average position players and 4 WAR for Pablo and that’s 35.5 WAR. Add the bullpen (~4.5 WAR) and that’s about 40 WAR. Add in 46 wins for a replacement-level team and that’s 86 wins. Optimistically.
86.
Three Responses.
1) The pitching staff last year combined for 23.6 WAR and thus could just a easily beat your 22 WAR projection in 2010 as fall short and therefore “optimistically” is an overstatement and could just as easily be replaced with “pessimistically”.
2) The 46 Wins you referenced for Replacement Level is actually AL only. MLB is 47 wins and most importantly NL is 48 Wins.
3) You failed to account for what I would see as the likely 2 WAR the Giants would get from their position player bench.
Add these all up an your 86 Win projection “optimistically” is corrected to the 90 Wins needed to be a serious playoff contender “realistically”.
I do applaud you for your continually upbeat view on our chances of reaching the playoffs next season. I also like to think we have a chance at making the playoffs based mainly on our strong pitching staff and the opposition in the NL West.
I do tend to believe though that 90 wins is more of an “optomistic” than a “realistic” target. Just to be clear here I am not saying it cannot happen, because I do believe there is a chance we win 90 games next year. I just think that to expect a repeat performance of equal or greater standard from our pitchers next year as a given is somewhat optomistic. For starters our bullpen is in no way guarnateed to be as good as last year as most bullpens do fluctuate year to year in performance. Also I don’t know if you noticed but apart from the aging Randy Johnson we had no real injury problems with our pitching staff at all.
I think Aaron B’s valuation of our pitching staff is pretty fair. I think by optomistic he means more what we would hope for than what we can expect at best. I think that to expect something to happpen again just because it did once before is somewhat optomistic. A prime example of this would be expecting Aaron Hill to hit over 30hrs next year because he did last when he had never been close before.
Just to be clear I don’t disagree that the Giants could win 90 next year but I think it would be fair to say that that is an optomistic view whereas 86 wins is probably closer to where we end up.
I did not assume more then the 22 WAR Aaron assumed from the pitching staff (17.5 Starters and 4.5 Relievers). I also did not assume more the the 18 WAR Aaron assumed from the position player starters (4 from Panda and two each from the other 7). Where Aaron and I differed is that I accounted for the position player bench (adding another 2 WAR) while Aaron did not and I Account for the fact that a repacement level team will win two more games in the NL (48) then that same team would win in the AL. 48 (NL Replacement Level) + 22 (Pitching Staff) + 20 (Position Players with 18 from Starters and 2 From Bench) adds up to 90 Wins.
The proof that the Giants are going nowhere is DeRosa. For the exact reasons explained above.
It was totally obvious to any Giants observer that if they signed ANYONE this offseason, it would be a old, run down player, at the end of his career, who Sabean thought was “undervalued”. DeRosa fits that perfectly. But he adds nothing to the team.
Had the Giants even said, we are going to sit pat and play the youngsters, i would have been happy with that, although wishing they would have done that last year. DeRosa commits the Giants to yet another year of not developing prospects, whether Bowker, Neal, Sandoval (at third), Ishikawa (at first), or even Schierholtz in the outfield. Sabean runs the Giants like the losing Yankees, except without the payroll.
There is a reason the Giants have not developed a position player in decades. Sandoval was an accident, he was rushed into service out of necessity, not out of any plan to develop home grown talent. By the time the typical young player on the Giants system gets any meaningful big league experience, he is too old to develop, partially because at the lower levels they are not getting the fundamentals.
I stopped going to games when they unceremoniously dumped Bonds. I will not go to another until Sabean is gone, or at least starts showing he has a brain instead of an ass in his head. Its hard to even watch this team on TV. What is the excitement in watching old, average players on their downhill slope?
Young players are cheaper, leaving the possibility of paying for a couple bigger bats, and some percent of them develop when they see major league pitching and “get it”. Even Burris, Velez are more interesting then Rowand, who looks like he is taking a dump instead of at bats.
Watch Sabean sign or trade for a catcher to fuck up Posey. Its so Sabean, I bet he can’t help himself.
Doing things the way you suggest, would risk the status quo. Sabean is under duress to not fuck with the status quo. At the end of the Baker era, the Giants managment looked around and said:
“Needs more journeymen yes-men”
Enter Alou
Enter Zito
Enter Aurilia
Enter Bochy
Enter Molina
Enter Rowand
Enter Roberts
Enter Morris
Enter Sanchez
Enter Renteria
Enter Winn
Enter Wright
Enter Tomko
Enter, Enter, Enter. Blah.
Middle age infielders like Sanchez, Renteria, Uribe, DeRosa represent a continuation of the status quo.
I find it amusing that the irony of a signing yet another middle age-guy who “looks forward to not being Plan B” and who has played on six teams in six years, is considered a significant part of adding offensive firepower. Especially when the General Manager and new Managing General Partner who while making ongoing and repetitive public commitment to getting the Giants younger, the outright lying goes virtually unremarked upon by the puds who call themselves professional sports journalists. Useless hacks.
Congratulations to Mark DeRosa for finding the one team in baseball who would rather play him every day than use him as a utility player where he holds most value.
He provides a slightly above average bat, he can play several positions (not particularly well but also not abysmally) and does not complain about being moved around the field or getting ~400 at-bats. He is one of those players who commentators often refer to as “the little signings who make the difference”, or the “final piece in the puzzle”. That is pretty much what he is and what he excels at. Unfortunately this is not how the Giants intend on using him.
Sabean seems, at least from this move anyway, intent on moving Sandoval to 1B. The problem here being that this is the position where Sandoval carries the least value to the team. It is a lot harder to find an outstanding hitter who can play third, than it is to find someone to mash at first. The fact that Sandoval is actually a reasonable defender at third and is determined to improve there, increases his value significantly. Sandoval needs to stay at third until he shows us that he really can’t play there.
You know what else sucks about this? That’s right Sabean signs DeRosa 35, to play third and shift Sandoval over to 1st. Meanwhile Kelly Johnson 27, gets signed for ~$2m by the D-Backs to be their starting 2B. If the plan is to move Sandoval to 1st wouldn’t we have been far better off signing Johnson to play 2B and move Sanchez to 3B? Defensively the difference would be minimal either way but would you rather have a declining 35 year old or a 27 year old who is more than likely to have a bounce back/breakout year?
I read Lefty’s blog the other day and he was advocating that we stock up on pitching via free agency and then trade for bats as necessary while giving our younger players a chance to play themselves off/onto the team. Looking at the free agent market that makes a lot of sense, especially when Sabean says he won’t be signing any type-A guys like Figgins/Bay/Holliday. Take back the $12m used to sign DeRosa since he is a marginal upgrade on what we already have and it could have been used to get Penny back or Rich Harden, or we could get guys like Ben Sheets and Chien-Ming Wang on the cheap. If the pitchers don’t work out we wouldn’t have committed too much money and if they do then we either keep them or flip them for a useful bat.
I didn’t expect much this off-season and Sabean has certainly delivered on that. Just imagine however if we had traded for J.J. Hardy, re-signed Brad Penny (or singed a reasonable alternative like Harden/Sheets), let Sanchez go and replaced him with Johnson.
Interesting post about the best and worst GMs in baseball. Unsurprisingly, Sabean makes the bottom five.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-alnl-gap-a-gm-disparity/