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	<title>Comments on: &#8230;. History lesson</title>
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	<description>Covering the SF Giants since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Culver</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-116121</link>
		<dc:creator>Culver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-116121</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m reading this article article and yes it appears to be wonderful! I like your writing style and you have mentioned some outstanding things on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reading this article article and yes it appears to be wonderful! I like your writing style and you have mentioned some outstanding things on this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackie</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-101960</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 17:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-101960</guid>
		<description>Giants ruled last season !! they ruled Penny</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giants ruled last season !! they ruled Penny</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34610</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34610</guid>
		<description>Penny played his ass off for the Giants last season and after all the hype about him being difficult and a problem in the clubhouse he came out of the season smelling like a rose.  The fact that he is supposed to have issues with the Dodgers has absolutely no down side in my opinion.  Whether he has played himself to a perceived value that the Giants cannot afford him is the question.  That they should at least try to sign him seems to me to be a no-brain-er, but Penny has succeeded where so many fail; he has completely rehabilitated his reputation.

I have to feel happy for Penny.  He did right by the Giants and he has made himself a clearly more valuable player.  If the Giants are going to expand their payroll he seems to be the best and most obvious player for them to go after.  I imagine Penny would be amenable to returning to the Giants.  His success in San Francisco, his surprising return to form, did not occur in a vacuum; something about being on the Giants squad allowed him to flourish and he should think twice about moving.

Since the idea of acquiring a real batter seems to be off the table the Giants will need the best pitching they can get.  But is Penny going to be too expensive, and will he want too many years?  Probably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penny played his ass off for the Giants last season and after all the hype about him being difficult and a problem in the clubhouse he came out of the season smelling like a rose.  The fact that he is supposed to have issues with the Dodgers has absolutely no down side in my opinion.  Whether he has played himself to a perceived value that the Giants cannot afford him is the question.  That they should at least try to sign him seems to me to be a no-brain-er, but Penny has succeeded where so many fail; he has completely rehabilitated his reputation.</p>
<p>I have to feel happy for Penny.  He did right by the Giants and he has made himself a clearly more valuable player.  If the Giants are going to expand their payroll he seems to be the best and most obvious player for them to go after.  I imagine Penny would be amenable to returning to the Giants.  His success in San Francisco, his surprising return to form, did not occur in a vacuum; something about being on the Giants squad allowed him to flourish and he should think twice about moving.</p>
<p>Since the idea of acquiring a real batter seems to be off the table the Giants will need the best pitching they can get.  But is Penny going to be too expensive, and will he want too many years?  Probably.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34607</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34607</guid>
		<description>It is one thing to be a team full of marginal players.  The Giants have lots of those. See San Diego, Oakland, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Washington, Arizona.

It is another thing to  have overpriced marginal players.  The Giants have lots of these too as you note. Also see Mets, Tigers, Cubs, Brewers, Astros, White Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles.

And it is a worse thing to be a team with half of your payroll tied up in 3 humongous nonperforming  manure piles. Each signed in succeeding years.  

The piece d&#039; resistance?  Extending the contract of the Nobel Imbecile Prize moron who was responsible for this mess and reward him with a 3 year extension just in time to add a fourth fecal cluster to the circle of shit  when Freddy Sanchez was given a two year contract after posting up an awesome 690 OPS and a sub-300 OBP.

Oh. And another under the radar &lt;a href=&quot;http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091117&amp;content_id=7676904&amp;vkey=mlbpa_news&amp;fext=.jsp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;former Giant&lt;/a&gt; kicking ass.  

Hint: The Giants rushed him to the Majors, he hurt himself trying to overthrow, like Joe Nathan, and was cast over the side for LaTroy Hawkins after being shipped to the minors and badmouthed in hushed voices to the local Bay Area mouthpieces by the front office on his way out the door. Just like Nathan. 

All this took place while paying Armando Benitez millions to eat chocolate tacos, pull hamstrings, and shit himself, and paying millions to guys like Matt Morris, Brett Tomko, Jamey Wright ad nauseum. 

And yet, in Penny, they have a guy who came in and shoved it for them for no cost, and whom nary a word is mentioned?

This organization is a fucking farce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is one thing to be a team full of marginal players.  The Giants have lots of those. See San Diego, Oakland, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Washington, Arizona.</p>
<p>It is another thing to  have overpriced marginal players.  The Giants have lots of these too as you note. Also see Mets, Tigers, Cubs, Brewers, Astros, White Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles.</p>
<p>And it is a worse thing to be a team with half of your payroll tied up in 3 humongous nonperforming  manure piles. Each signed in succeeding years.  </p>
<p>The piece d&#8217; resistance?  Extending the contract of the Nobel Imbecile Prize moron who was responsible for this mess and reward him with a 3 year extension just in time to add a fourth fecal cluster to the circle of shit  when Freddy Sanchez was given a two year contract after posting up an awesome 690 OPS and a sub-300 OBP.</p>
<p>Oh. And another under the radar <a href="http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091117&amp;content_id=7676904&amp;vkey=mlbpa_news&amp;fext=.jsp" rel="nofollow">former Giant</a> kicking ass.  </p>
<p>Hint: The Giants rushed him to the Majors, he hurt himself trying to overthrow, like Joe Nathan, and was cast over the side for LaTroy Hawkins after being shipped to the minors and badmouthed in hushed voices to the local Bay Area mouthpieces by the front office on his way out the door. Just like Nathan. </p>
<p>All this took place while paying Armando Benitez millions to eat chocolate tacos, pull hamstrings, and shit himself, and paying millions to guys like Matt Morris, Brett Tomko, Jamey Wright ad nauseum. </p>
<p>And yet, in Penny, they have a guy who came in and shoved it for them for no cost, and whom nary a word is mentioned?</p>
<p>This organization is a fucking farce.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34606</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34606</guid>
		<description>How come you can write in one sentence what takes me thirty four paragraphs, 13 posts, and 2 weeks to write?

Fucker :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How come you can write in one sentence what takes me thirty four paragraphs, 13 posts, and 2 weeks to write?</p>
<p>Fucker <img src='http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34605</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34605</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;If the Giants do not raise their payroll&lt;/b&gt; heading into the 2010 season they will have only $25.52 million  to divvy up between 19 players – &lt;i&gt;and one of those players is &lt;b&gt;Tim Lincecum&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.  

This is because the Giants have $57.1M committed in contracts to Zito ($18.5M), Rowand ($13.6M), Renteria ($10M), Sanchez ($6M), Cain ($4.5M) and Affeldt ($4.5M).  These six players are receiving 69% of the total payroll.

Lincecum is likely to ask compensation on par with Barry Zito&#039;s.  Lincecum is, after all, the staff Ace, more effective, more consistent, and he has twice as many Cy Young awards; facts that his agent will no doubt point out during negotiations.  There is also the example of the Yankee&#039;s contract with CC Sabathia.  Lincecum is going to get a very big raise, no matter how the negotiations shake down.

This will leave somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 million dollars to pay the remaining 18 players, possibly less.  There is no room to sign even second-tier players. 

&lt;b&gt;The Top Six&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;b&gt;Barry Zito&lt;/b&gt;, earning $18.5M, or 22.4% of the team&#039;s total payroll, plays every five days.  He is going to turn 34 early in the 2010 season.  His quality of play would make him a fourth or fifth starter on a NL West team.  His claim to fame: Worst signing in baseball history.  A reoccurring nightmare on the hill, his fastball crosses the plate at about 75MPH.  Baseball&#039;s equivalent of toxic waste.

&lt;b&gt;Aaron Rowand&lt;/b&gt;, earning $13.6M or 16.5% of the team&#039;s total payroll, plays every day.  He is going to turn 33 in the 2010 season.  His quality of play is average and declining.  His claim to fame: Runs face first into walls, team mates.  Bad plate discipline complimented by lack of pop.  Rowand led the team in strikeouts and batted a pitiful .261, the worst since his first full season in the majors.  At least he isn&#039;t Dave Roberts bad.

&lt;b&gt;Edgar Renteria&lt;/b&gt;, earning $10M, or 12.1% of the team&#039;s total payroll, plays when not injured.  He is going to turn 35 in the 2010 season.  Renteria checked out of the 2009 season early to have surgery on his right elbow.  His quality of play was below average in 2009.  His claim to fame:  Option declined by the Detroit Tigers.  Renteria is blocking younger players with no upside.  Look up the word “boondoggle”.

&lt;b&gt;Freddy Sanchez&lt;/b&gt;, earning $6M, or 7.26% of the team&#039;s total payroll, plays when not injured.  Another 33 year old player.  Sanchez has undergone knee surgery.  His quality of play is average.  His claim to fame: Damaged upon receipt.  Sanchez has no pop and is blocking younger players with no upside.  

&lt;b&gt;Matt Cain&lt;/b&gt;, earning $4.5M, or  5.45% of the team&#039;s total payroll, plays every fifth day.  He will turn 26 in the 2010 season.  His quality of play is solid.  His claim to fame: Very good and getting better.  Worth every cent.  Hell, give him a raise.

&lt;b&gt;Jeremy Affeldt&lt;/b&gt;, earning $4.5M, or 5.45% of the team&#039;s total payroll, left handed relief.  Affeldt will turn 31 in the 2010 season.  His quality of play is solid.  His claim to fame: Very good and improving.  An important element in the bullpen and worth every penny.

Overall I don&#039;t have anything much against the Freddy Sanchez deal, if he can play healthy next year, and Cain and Affeldt are worth every cent.  

The three highest paid players on the roster are pure unadulterated waste.  $42 million for those three, fully half the team&#039;s payroll (51%).  Spending that kind of money you&#039;d expect to get a top-tier ballplayer or two, instead of a hat full of shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>If the Giants do not raise their payroll</b> heading into the 2010 season they will have only $25.52 million  to divvy up between 19 players – <i>and one of those players is <b>Tim Lincecum</b></i>.  </p>
<p>This is because the Giants have $57.1M committed in contracts to Zito ($18.5M), Rowand ($13.6M), Renteria ($10M), Sanchez ($6M), Cain ($4.5M) and Affeldt ($4.5M).  These six players are receiving 69% of the total payroll.</p>
<p>Lincecum is likely to ask compensation on par with Barry Zito&#8217;s.  Lincecum is, after all, the staff Ace, more effective, more consistent, and he has twice as many Cy Young awards; facts that his agent will no doubt point out during negotiations.  There is also the example of the Yankee&#8217;s contract with CC Sabathia.  Lincecum is going to get a very big raise, no matter how the negotiations shake down.</p>
<p>This will leave somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 million dollars to pay the remaining 18 players, possibly less.  There is no room to sign even second-tier players. </p>
<p><b>The Top Six</b></p>
<p><b>Barry Zito</b>, earning $18.5M, or 22.4% of the team&#8217;s total payroll, plays every five days.  He is going to turn 34 early in the 2010 season.  His quality of play would make him a fourth or fifth starter on a NL West team.  His claim to fame: Worst signing in baseball history.  A reoccurring nightmare on the hill, his fastball crosses the plate at about 75MPH.  Baseball&#8217;s equivalent of toxic waste.</p>
<p><b>Aaron Rowand</b>, earning $13.6M or 16.5% of the team&#8217;s total payroll, plays every day.  He is going to turn 33 in the 2010 season.  His quality of play is average and declining.  His claim to fame: Runs face first into walls, team mates.  Bad plate discipline complimented by lack of pop.  Rowand led the team in strikeouts and batted a pitiful .261, the worst since his first full season in the majors.  At least he isn&#8217;t Dave Roberts bad.</p>
<p><b>Edgar Renteria</b>, earning $10M, or 12.1% of the team&#8217;s total payroll, plays when not injured.  He is going to turn 35 in the 2010 season.  Renteria checked out of the 2009 season early to have surgery on his right elbow.  His quality of play was below average in 2009.  His claim to fame:  Option declined by the Detroit Tigers.  Renteria is blocking younger players with no upside.  Look up the word “boondoggle”.</p>
<p><b>Freddy Sanchez</b>, earning $6M, or 7.26% of the team&#8217;s total payroll, plays when not injured.  Another 33 year old player.  Sanchez has undergone knee surgery.  His quality of play is average.  His claim to fame: Damaged upon receipt.  Sanchez has no pop and is blocking younger players with no upside.  </p>
<p><b>Matt Cain</b>, earning $4.5M, or  5.45% of the team&#8217;s total payroll, plays every fifth day.  He will turn 26 in the 2010 season.  His quality of play is solid.  His claim to fame: Very good and getting better.  Worth every cent.  Hell, give him a raise.</p>
<p><b>Jeremy Affeldt</b>, earning $4.5M, or 5.45% of the team&#8217;s total payroll, left handed relief.  Affeldt will turn 31 in the 2010 season.  His quality of play is solid.  His claim to fame: Very good and improving.  An important element in the bullpen and worth every penny.</p>
<p>Overall I don&#8217;t have anything much against the Freddy Sanchez deal, if he can play healthy next year, and Cain and Affeldt are worth every cent.  </p>
<p>The three highest paid players on the roster are pure unadulterated waste.  $42 million for those three, fully half the team&#8217;s payroll (51%).  Spending that kind of money you&#8217;d expect to get a top-tier ballplayer or two, instead of a hat full of shit.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34603</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34603</guid>
		<description>Couldn&#039;t agree more with what&#039;s been said by Bill James. It&#039;s like if Hillary stayed in the race for president, well of course McCain would win because the democrats would split that vote. That&#039;s what happened with the two St. Louis pitchers. They were impossible to differentiate from each other. Also, Lincecum was better and is going to be better this year too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree more with what&#8217;s been said by Bill James. It&#8217;s like if Hillary stayed in the race for president, well of course McCain would win because the democrats would split that vote. That&#8217;s what happened with the two St. Louis pitchers. They were impossible to differentiate from each other. Also, Lincecum was better and is going to be better this year too.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34602</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34602</guid>
		<description>In my view, the split vote derived from the fact that the three pitchers had seasons that were extremely close in value, which resulted in all three earning almost the same exact number of voting points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my view, the split vote derived from the fact that the three pitchers had seasons that were extremely close in value, which resulted in all three earning almost the same exact number of voting points.</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34601</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34601</guid>
		<description>What makes you think arbitration is a $20M lock?  And what makes you think they can base the arbitration number on Sabathia?  When Howard set the arb record, he just won the MVP (implying he&#039;s one of the best players in the league, unless you think that logic is mistaken?), and he didn&#039;t even get half of what ARod was making.  Why would Lincecum get what CC is making, or even half of what CC is making?  No pitcher at Lincecum&#039;s service time has even gotten $5M before...

As for addressing John&#039;s post, it looks to me like the writers got lucky the vote got split so the deserving player won.  The real evidence to me, that the writers still don&#039;t have a clue, though, is the NL MVP vote.  Chase Utley didn&#039;t make the Top 10 for 14 of the 32 voters, and only receieved Top 5 consideration from 5 of the 32 voters.  What does the best defensive 2B in baseball have to do to get noticed?  He hit .282/.397/.508 with 31 HR&#039;s!  He&#039;s a better hitter than Ryan Howard, a better baserunner (he even set the record for most steals without being caught this year with 23!), and he&#039;s a gold glove 2B!  He&#039;s one of the 4 best players in all of baseball (the other 3 being Pujols, Hanley, Mauer), and has been that good for 5 years now.  When someone as good as Utley is only deemed the 8th most valuable player in the national league, it really makes you wonder who decided to give the vote to a group of people who so obviously has no clue...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes you think arbitration is a $20M lock?  And what makes you think they can base the arbitration number on Sabathia?  When Howard set the arb record, he just won the MVP (implying he&#8217;s one of the best players in the league, unless you think that logic is mistaken?), and he didn&#8217;t even get half of what ARod was making.  Why would Lincecum get what CC is making, or even half of what CC is making?  No pitcher at Lincecum&#8217;s service time has even gotten $5M before&#8230;</p>
<p>As for addressing John&#8217;s post, it looks to me like the writers got lucky the vote got split so the deserving player won.  The real evidence to me, that the writers still don&#8217;t have a clue, though, is the NL MVP vote.  Chase Utley didn&#8217;t make the Top 10 for 14 of the 32 voters, and only receieved Top 5 consideration from 5 of the 32 voters.  What does the best defensive 2B in baseball have to do to get noticed?  He hit .282/.397/.508 with 31 HR&#8217;s!  He&#8217;s a better hitter than Ryan Howard, a better baserunner (he even set the record for most steals without being caught this year with 23!), and he&#8217;s a gold glove 2B!  He&#8217;s one of the 4 best players in all of baseball (the other 3 being Pujols, Hanley, Mauer), and has been that good for 5 years now.  When someone as good as Utley is only deemed the 8th most valuable player in the national league, it really makes you wonder who decided to give the vote to a group of people who so obviously has no clue&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/26/history-lesson-4/comment-page-1/#comment-34600</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1575#comment-34600</guid>
		<description>Yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.</p>
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