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	<title>Comments on: &#8230;. Separated at birth</title>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34581</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34581</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t disagree with your point. What I am saying the Giants can jump up and down until the brown cow jumps over the lazy fox, but there are teams that are going to outbid  them and being like anybody else, Lincecum will follow the money AND THE opportunity to win a championship. 

Its not up to the Giants where Lincecum is going when he reaches FA.  Its up to Lincecum and there is no way any player like him is going to want to stay with a team that is saying out loud that it is trying to sign second tier players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with your point. What I am saying the Giants can jump up and down until the brown cow jumps over the lazy fox, but there are teams that are going to outbid  them and being like anybody else, Lincecum will follow the money AND THE opportunity to win a championship. </p>
<p>Its not up to the Giants where Lincecum is going when he reaches FA.  Its up to Lincecum and there is no way any player like him is going to want to stay with a team that is saying out loud that it is trying to sign second tier players.</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34580</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34580</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve paid Zito, we&#039;ve paid Bonds, Lincecum is easily the next logical choice to build around.  Honestly, I don&#039;t see how we don&#039;t make every effort to keep him.  You know I&#039;m not quick to defend ownership or Sabean, especially, but I just think resigning Lincecum fits exactly into what our strategy has always been.  I think there&#039;s more evidence we&#039;ll keep him around than evidence against it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve paid Zito, we&#8217;ve paid Bonds, Lincecum is easily the next logical choice to build around.  Honestly, I don&#8217;t see how we don&#8217;t make every effort to keep him.  You know I&#8217;m not quick to defend ownership or Sabean, especially, but I just think resigning Lincecum fits exactly into what our strategy has always been.  I think there&#8217;s more evidence we&#8217;ll keep him around than evidence against it.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34578</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34578</guid>
		<description>Its going to be pretty simple.  Priorities

1 Size of Contract
2 Chance to win a championship

Giants will be somewhere around #3 or less on size of contract when he hits free agency.
His chances of winning a championship with a cast of &quot;second tier&quot; players is about fucking nil.

Neukom isn&#039;t about to part with more money than Steinbrenner, Henry, the Dodgers or the Angels.

The MLB central pool punishes the achievers and rewards the losers.  Which is why the good players migrate to the successful teams in free agency.  

Do you think CC Sabathia is happier in New York or Cleveland.  Would Nick Swisher rather be in the House of Al Davis or Yankee Stadium?  Same for Johnny Damon.  Would A.J. Burnett rather be back with Florida along with Red Sox ace Josh Beckett or earning millions more with a WS ring.  

And so it goes.  Current Management. Current priorities all stay in place.

He&#039;s gone.

Bank on it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its going to be pretty simple.  Priorities</p>
<p>1 Size of Contract<br />
2 Chance to win a championship</p>
<p>Giants will be somewhere around #3 or less on size of contract when he hits free agency.<br />
His chances of winning a championship with a cast of &#8220;second tier&#8221; players is about fucking nil.</p>
<p>Neukom isn&#8217;t about to part with more money than Steinbrenner, Henry, the Dodgers or the Angels.</p>
<p>The MLB central pool punishes the achievers and rewards the losers.  Which is why the good players migrate to the successful teams in free agency.  </p>
<p>Do you think CC Sabathia is happier in New York or Cleveland.  Would Nick Swisher rather be in the House of Al Davis or Yankee Stadium?  Same for Johnny Damon.  Would A.J. Burnett rather be back with Florida along with Red Sox ace Josh Beckett or earning millions more with a WS ring.  </p>
<p>And so it goes.  Current Management. Current priorities all stay in place.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s gone.</p>
<p>Bank on it</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34575</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34575</guid>
		<description>Lincecum is a nice piece of marketing for them, though.  He is everything Zito was supposed to be, in addition to being a true ace.  Assuming he stays relatively healthy, I think the Giants will do everything they can to keep him around well past his 6 years of team control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lincecum is a nice piece of marketing for them, though.  He is everything Zito was supposed to be, in addition to being a true ace.  Assuming he stays relatively healthy, I think the Giants will do everything they can to keep him around well past his 6 years of team control.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34571</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34571</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t kid yourself. Lincecum will be long gone and Cain will have been traded before he hits free agency.  You have to remember. The Giants are about the bottom line first. They keep the bottom line strong by continuing to do an excellent job of marketing the ballpark experience.  

Their per capita revenue on ticket sales is amongst the highest in MLB.  Never lose sight of that fact. Neukom liked the status quo.  Hence the 3 years to Sabean and Bochy. The Giants are in a state of almost perfect financial equilibrium when chaos reigns around their baseball brethren.  Promise them anything, but continue to give the same old shit.  Its worked for 10 years, and continues to work.  Its time tested.  Nothing will change given unchanging circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t kid yourself. Lincecum will be long gone and Cain will have been traded before he hits free agency.  You have to remember. The Giants are about the bottom line first. They keep the bottom line strong by continuing to do an excellent job of marketing the ballpark experience.  </p>
<p>Their per capita revenue on ticket sales is amongst the highest in MLB.  Never lose sight of that fact. Neukom liked the status quo.  Hence the 3 years to Sabean and Bochy. The Giants are in a state of almost perfect financial equilibrium when chaos reigns around their baseball brethren.  Promise them anything, but continue to give the same old shit.  Its worked for 10 years, and continues to work.  Its time tested.  Nothing will change given unchanging circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34570</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34570</guid>
		<description>Somebody, a few months ago somewhere,  tried to depict the Giants as a top tier franchise in terms of on-field performance this year because they had 88 wins.  Well first of all, if you finish in third place in a 5 team division, I don&#039;t see how that is considered a top tier team.  While 88 wins is damn nice compared to 72 wins, its not good at all, when you finish 4 games behind 2nd place and 7 games out of first.  Its barely above mediocre. A swing of 7 games and they would have been at 81W 81L, instead of 88W 74L.  Thats 7 games over .500. Thats not top tier and its barely 2nd tier.  And its no accident that its second tier.

To quote from &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/11/19/brian-sabean-on-chasing-bay-or-holliday-i-dont-think-they-would-have-genuine-interest-why-would-they/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tim Kawakami&#039;s take&lt;/a&gt; on the Brian Sabean press grovel yesterday.  Here is Sabean virtually echoing the opinions of many here (at least those of the smart guys :D) when it comes to the Giants as a second tier team:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Sabean:  &quot;...Quite frankly, &lt;strong&gt;there are a lot of nice opportunities with that second tier&lt;/strong&gt;. There are some people that are going to help, maybe in some cases just as well as the higher-priced free agent, including the numbers of years you’d have to give somebody.

We have some flexibility, as you know, because Pablo can play third and first. And if we had to, Sanchez could also play third. And in the outfield, we know we have to get better at, especially offensively…

-Q: Holliday and Bay are the big names… Have you gauged their possible interest? Do you think either of those guys would have genuine interest in coming to the Giants?

-SABEAN: We have not. I don’t think that they would have genuine interest based on the field that they’re going to be involved in. Why would they?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would like to know who the fuck Sabean is talking about when he talks about some &quot;second-tier&quot; player  helping &quot;just as well as the higher-priced free agent&quot;

You  mean like Edgar Renteria?  Aaron Rowand maybe?  Freddy Sanchez?  Dave Roberts?  Ryan Klesko?  Edgardo Alfonso?  Brett Tomko?  A.J. Piersynski? Randy Winn?.

I found the &quot;we have to get better in the outfield&quot; comment particularly charming.  You mean like in 2006 when you gave a big fat multi-year contract to Randy &quot;Two-Bombs A Year&quot; Winn? Or like in 2007 when you gave a big fat multi-year contract to Dave &quot;Herve Villechaize&quot;  Roberts?  Or in 2008 you gave a big fat multi-year contract to Aaron &quot;Fenceface&quot; Rowand. Or like in 2009 after having a dead nuts awesome oufield you started to build up your infield offense with yet another multi-year contract just to treat Giants fans to the awesomeness of Edgar &quot;.635 OPS&quot; Renteria.

Yep Brian. Love those second tier signings.  Incredibly shrewd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody, a few months ago somewhere,  tried to depict the Giants as a top tier franchise in terms of on-field performance this year because they had 88 wins.  Well first of all, if you finish in third place in a 5 team division, I don&#8217;t see how that is considered a top tier team.  While 88 wins is damn nice compared to 72 wins, its not good at all, when you finish 4 games behind 2nd place and 7 games out of first.  Its barely above mediocre. A swing of 7 games and they would have been at 81W 81L, instead of 88W 74L.  Thats 7 games over .500. Thats not top tier and its barely 2nd tier.  And its no accident that its second tier.</p>
<p>To quote from <a href="http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/11/19/brian-sabean-on-chasing-bay-or-holliday-i-dont-think-they-would-have-genuine-interest-why-would-they/" rel="nofollow">Tim Kawakami&#8217;s take</a> on the Brian Sabean press grovel yesterday.  Here is Sabean virtually echoing the opinions of many here (at least those of the smart guys <img src='http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> ) when it comes to the Giants as a second tier team:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sabean:  &#8220;&#8230;Quite frankly, <strong>there are a lot of nice opportunities with that second tier</strong>. There are some people that are going to help, maybe in some cases just as well as the higher-priced free agent, including the numbers of years you’d have to give somebody.</p>
<p>We have some flexibility, as you know, because Pablo can play third and first. And if we had to, Sanchez could also play third. And in the outfield, we know we have to get better at, especially offensively…</p>
<p>-Q: Holliday and Bay are the big names… Have you gauged their possible interest? Do you think either of those guys would have genuine interest in coming to the Giants?</p>
<p>-SABEAN: We have not. I don’t think that they would have genuine interest based on the field that they’re going to be involved in. Why would they?</p></blockquote>
<p>I would like to know who the fuck Sabean is talking about when he talks about some &#8220;second-tier&#8221; player  helping &#8220;just as well as the higher-priced free agent&#8221;</p>
<p>You  mean like Edgar Renteria?  Aaron Rowand maybe?  Freddy Sanchez?  Dave Roberts?  Ryan Klesko?  Edgardo Alfonso?  Brett Tomko?  A.J. Piersynski? Randy Winn?.</p>
<p>I found the &#8220;we have to get better in the outfield&#8221; comment particularly charming.  You mean like in 2006 when you gave a big fat multi-year contract to Randy &#8220;Two-Bombs A Year&#8221; Winn? Or like in 2007 when you gave a big fat multi-year contract to Dave &#8220;Herve Villechaize&#8221;  Roberts?  Or in 2008 you gave a big fat multi-year contract to Aaron &#8220;Fenceface&#8221; Rowand. Or like in 2009 after having a dead nuts awesome oufield you started to build up your infield offense with yet another multi-year contract just to treat Giants fans to the awesomeness of Edgar &#8220;.635 OPS&#8221; Renteria.</p>
<p>Yep Brian. Love those second tier signings.  Incredibly shrewd.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34569</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34569</guid>
		<description>As John points out, Wainright and Carpenter split the voters.  Its really no more complicated than that, despite what all the flapping gums at ESPN and those that have a vested interest in creating something out of nothing would have us believe. Any one of the three would have been good choices for those that are interested in such things.  

And like everything else in MLB, even its awards and recognition and championships are eroded and soiled by the relentless cacaphony of player denigration from msm, whom Selig has sold out to in exchange for his annual $6 billion dollar revenue stream.   

I care about as much about the BBWA recognition clusterfuck as I do about the fools in charge of HOF membership.  

I follow MLB for a number of reasons, very little of which have to do with individual recognition or awards. 

Team Championships

The pure grace of the game.

The amount of incredible talent and hardwork and even- temperament required for an individual to consistently excel 

Individual excellence displayed in a team setting over the course of Spring, Summer, Autumn. A beginning. A Middle. An End.

The daily opportunity to celebrate all that is good about the human condition, and criticize much of what is bad


None of them have to do with what msm wants me to think. None of them have to do with my rooting interest for a fucktard with no life whose only sense of self-worth comes from a piece of paper that tells him he has temporary stewardship over a National Institution and the parking privileges thereof.

I don&#039;t care who gets the plastic jesus statue. What I care about is what I saw in the context of what I love about this game.  And that is something that msm has no say in whatsoever. 

Fuck em. And the Sabean horse they rode in on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As John points out, Wainright and Carpenter split the voters.  Its really no more complicated than that, despite what all the flapping gums at ESPN and those that have a vested interest in creating something out of nothing would have us believe. Any one of the three would have been good choices for those that are interested in such things.  </p>
<p>And like everything else in MLB, even its awards and recognition and championships are eroded and soiled by the relentless cacaphony of player denigration from msm, whom Selig has sold out to in exchange for his annual $6 billion dollar revenue stream.   </p>
<p>I care about as much about the BBWA recognition clusterfuck as I do about the fools in charge of HOF membership.  </p>
<p>I follow MLB for a number of reasons, very little of which have to do with individual recognition or awards. </p>
<p>Team Championships</p>
<p>The pure grace of the game.</p>
<p>The amount of incredible talent and hardwork and even- temperament required for an individual to consistently excel </p>
<p>Individual excellence displayed in a team setting over the course of Spring, Summer, Autumn. A beginning. A Middle. An End.</p>
<p>The daily opportunity to celebrate all that is good about the human condition, and criticize much of what is bad</p>
<p>None of them have to do with what msm wants me to think. None of them have to do with my rooting interest for a fucktard with no life whose only sense of self-worth comes from a piece of paper that tells him he has temporary stewardship over a National Institution and the parking privileges thereof.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care who gets the plastic jesus statue. What I care about is what I saw in the context of what I love about this game.  And that is something that msm has no say in whatsoever. </p>
<p>Fuck em. And the Sabean horse they rode in on.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34564</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34564</guid>
		<description>Well, with all due respect, Jo Jo, Lincecum winning the award had nothing to do with him &quot;having it in him.&quot;  He won because, as I wrote multiple times in the backtalk sections, , given the won loss deficit, his only chance to win was to have Carpenter and Wainwright split the Cardinals vote.  Which is exactly what happened.

So, what, exactly, am I supposed to be apologizing for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, with all due respect, Jo Jo, Lincecum winning the award had nothing to do with him &#8220;having it in him.&#8221;  He won because, as I wrote multiple times in the backtalk sections, , given the won loss deficit, his only chance to win was to have Carpenter and Wainwright split the Cardinals vote.  Which is exactly what happened.</p>
<p>So, what, exactly, am I supposed to be apologizing for?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34563</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34563</guid>
		<description>The Giants have a two time Cy Young award winning pitcher on their staff and the GM has asked “Where do we go from here?”
The Giants will finish third or fourth in the NL West.
Sabean has dismissed the possibility of pursuing top tier free agents to fill the void in the team&#039;s offense.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_13829637&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/a&gt;
That&#039;s it.  They&#039;re not even going to try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Giants have a two time Cy Young award winning pitcher on their staff and the GM has asked “Where do we go from here?”<br />
The Giants will finish third or fourth in the NL West.<br />
Sabean has dismissed the possibility of pursuing top tier free agents to fill the void in the team&#8217;s offense.  <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_13829637" rel="nofollow">Link</a><br />
That&#8217;s it.  They&#8217;re not even going to try.</p>
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		<title>By: trantor</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/11/16/separated-at-birth/comment-page-1/#comment-34562</link>
		<dc:creator>trantor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1571#comment-34562</guid>
		<description>I did not think Lincecum was going to get it, either, for two reasons, wins and the way he faded a little down the stretch. Congrats, Timmy!

I expect Sabean will try to sign Timmy up for a 3 year extension, to avoid arbitration, perhaps 3 years for $30-35 million. Lincecum might be more favorably disposed to accept a modest deal for 3 years security because of his late season back injury - call it just in case money, and it would be good for both teams, while giving both options in 3 years.

I don&#039;t expect a Holliday siging, Sabean indicated he was going to wait, to try to get a &quot;better deal&quot; - on some flawed player other teams overlook. cringe

I am holding my nose for what is sure to be a doozy of a signing for the outfield. Think 35+, middling batting average, some HR power, few walks and a gold glove 5-10 years ago. Lets hope at least it is an AL player who could show some improvement moving over to the NL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not think Lincecum was going to get it, either, for two reasons, wins and the way he faded a little down the stretch. Congrats, Timmy!</p>
<p>I expect Sabean will try to sign Timmy up for a 3 year extension, to avoid arbitration, perhaps 3 years for $30-35 million. Lincecum might be more favorably disposed to accept a modest deal for 3 years security because of his late season back injury &#8211; call it just in case money, and it would be good for both teams, while giving both options in 3 years.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t expect a Holliday siging, Sabean indicated he was going to wait, to try to get a &#8220;better deal&#8221; &#8211; on some flawed player other teams overlook. cringe</p>
<p>I am holding my nose for what is sure to be a doozy of a signing for the outfield. Think 35+, middling batting average, some HR power, few walks and a gold glove 5-10 years ago. Lets hope at least it is an AL player who could show some improvement moving over to the NL.</p>
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