History made tonight. Matsui becomes the first Japanese-born player to win a World Series MVP, and a World Series, period.
Congratulations to the Yankees.
UPDATE: As I said yesterday, today’s game was all about Pettitte commanding the strike zone, and even though he walked five tonight, in the actual game situations, he was putting the ball exactly where he wanted to. Joe West was a bit inconsistent with his ball and strike calls, but Pettite refused to give in, and, in the end, with the early three-run lead, he was able to make sure that the pitches the Phillies swung at, the pitches that the Phillies hit, were the pitches he wanted them to swing at, the pitches he wanted them to hit. The pitches he wanted to them to hit, were thrown to the hitters he wanted to allow to have a chance to hit. All in all, the difference in the game was that Andy Pettitte commanded the strike zone, and by doing so, he won his 18th postseason game.
By the way, any talk about the Hall of Fame for Andy Pettitte (229-135 regular season record) must now consider the 40 postseason starts ( a whole extra seasons worth of work), and the 18-9 postseason record –which would raise his overall record to 257-144– was compiled at the highest, most demanding, pressure-filled level. Andy Pettitte has now won 5 postseason series clinching games. He’s now won 3 World Series clinching games. To suggest that he is the same pitcher as Jack Morris, as I read several times this week, is absurd. He’s had more than three times as many postseason wins as Morris, and he’s now won five –FIVE– World Series Championships.
Andy Pettitte did, in fact, command the strike zone, and, as I predicted, the Yankees did get to Pedro Martinez; and, as I predicted, if a Yankee hitter had an otherwordly game, he would steal the MVP from Mariano Rivera; and, as I predicted, if those things happened, the Yankees would be World Champions. And, they are.
I admire the valuable info you offer you inside your articles. I’ll bookmark your website and have my kids examine up the following typically. I am really confident they will understand a lot of new stuff below than anybody else!
Thank you for your well-thought content. I’m really at perform proper now! So I ought to go off with no reading through all I’d like. But, I place your web site on my RSS feed in order that I can read mor
MOST INFORMATIVE SITE FOR ELECTRONICS….
**YOUTUBE VIDEO REVIEWS ON THE HOTTEST ELECTRONICS OUT**…
The difference with Zito’s contract and other oft quoted bad contracts is that the Zito contract was widely hailed as one of the worst contracts ever in the week it was signed. Some players get hurt or fall off a cliff the season or two after signing, but Zito fell off that cliff BEFORE the contract was negotiated and the Giants were too stupid to notice.
Absolutely.
The failure of the Giants to sign Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano in 2007 had nothing to do with AT&T Park’s reputation as a pitcher’s ballpark. It had a lot to do money and it had a lot to do with the perception throughout the majors at that time that the Giants organization was in chaos.
First the money.
Carlos Lee signed with the Astros. His payday? $3M signing bonus; $100M over 6 years. Could the Giants have matched or exceeded this offer? Certainly. They did not.
Alfonso Soriano signed with the Cubs. His payday? $8M signing bonus; $136M over 8 years. Could the Giants have matched or exceeded this offer? Sure, but they didn’t.
Why not?
The chaos.
Even if the Giants had seriously engaged in a bidding war with the other teams interested in these two players – which they did not – the Giants were at a serious disadvantage.
Some may remember the media circus surrounding Bonds which was raging at the time. Others might point out that the Giants were fielding the oldest players in baseball, the average age of their starting eight being 36. Still others may recall that the Giants had mercifully released 72 year old manager Felipe Alou and replaced him with the dynamic and charismatic Bruce Bochey, who had been released by the Padres despite having just won the division championship.
If the above is not enough convince the skeptical that the Giants were in chaos prior to the 2007 season one merely has to recall who they did sign in their panic and confusion: In a bidding war against themselves the Giants signed Barry Zito for $126M over 7 years; widely held to be the worst signing in the history of baseball. And when one looks back at the Alex Rodriguez signing with the Rangers, that is saying a lot. The Giants front office was the laughing stock of Major League Baseball. Hands down.
As far as signing Mark Teixeira goes the Giants were never even close to competing for his contract. Teixeira signed with the Yankees for $180M over 8 years with a $5M signing bonus. The Giants were not about to pony up that kind of scratch, because many of the same decision makers who had botched the negotiations in 2007 were still in charge and were trying to figure out how to extend their own contracts and job security. They were never going to go out on that limb.
None of this had anything to do with the ballpark. Players who declined offers from the Giants that cite the park as their reason were being polite. It would be impolitic to say something like “I’m not signing with the Giants because they are cheap and their current organization and clubhouse is a well known nightmare.”
About the ballpark.
The dimensions at AT&T park are not friendly to power hitters. It would not be a huge mistake for the Giants to enclose the huge right center field area known as triples alley (they could build more bleacher seats and actually have a bullpen area) in order to bring the dimensions more in line with other major league ballparks. There would be more home runs and less excuses.
In fairness, I’m glad they didn’t sign Soriano. That contract the Cubs gave him was horrible.
As far as Zito’s contract goes, take a look at Vernon Wells. I think THAT has to be the worst contract in baseball.
Off topic
Everytime I see you post I think of “Fish” (Abe Vigoda) on the old Barney Miller sitcom, as this very large, kind but lumbering sad-eyed old detective who has seen too much and is very sardonic but hilariously deadpan funny, so it is always good to see you post. Even when we think the other is full of shit.
On Topic.
I don’t know what happened to Soriano, but damn he was awesome with the Yankees, and he just seems to get a little worse each year…at least in my perception.
And no fair pointing to the Wells contract when the Zito contract gets called out. Thats the kind of stuff that propagandists do…deflecting attention from really bad and horrible decision by attempting to point out someone else’s egregious decisions.
I don’t think you are excusing the Zito contract. You know baseball better than that, but sometimes if you don’t take the time to elaborate sometimes, guys like me take things the wrong way. You’ve a lot to contribute when you take the time. And since we’re on the subject.
I can’t stand Zito’s pitching and the negative effect of his contract.
I don’t think Abe Vigoda ever got the recognition he deserved for playing “Tessio” in “The Godfather”….how’s that for knowledge?
I agree with you about Soriano, and I think it illustrates the dangers in giving out an 8 frigging year deal to a player…..a team like the Yankees will just shrug off the last two years of Texeira’s contract, should he decline towards the end. But for other clubs, it can be a killer.
I’m not excusing the Zito contract by pointing out Wells’ contract, but here’s the biggest problem with Zito’s deal: It’s set a very dangerous precedent. What do you think Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner and any other pitcher in the Giant system are going to use as a baseplate to negotiate a deal with Giants? Yep, Zito’s contract. They’ll think “well, if the Giants gave Barry X dollars, then I deserve Y dollars….”
It’s a very slippery slope.
I think you’re absolutely correct about the Giants failure to sign decent free agents in 2007. Yes chaos reigned. But the same damn stooges who created the mess continued to run things for three more years and were rewarded for their continued Keystone Cops style of on-field and off-field management.
But this is the part that kills me. Other than this blog, and a few intermittent blurbs on fanboy sites, nowhere is mainstream media taken to task for the absolutely incompetent bordering on corrupt coverage of the Giants organization mismanagement for the past several years. Guys like Barbierie, Radnich, and Ostler may take an occasional swipe, but other than a few attempts at truth-telling the coverage of the Giants Mangament is breathtakingly pathetic and sycophantic. Pravda could not have been more in the lap of the Communist Party under Kruschev.
It is so much easier for these guys who depend upon access, and who willingly subject themselves to the flattery of Larry Baer, to just swallow the press releases, conduct some softball interviews, and throw the occasional Kevin Frandsen under the bus while doing the Giants front office dirty work for them, than it is for them to actually behave like journalists instead of extensions of the Giants Media machine.
“Player don’t like Payphone Park?”
At least some of us are paying attention and putting their statements, onfield decisons and offield policies under a magnifying glass and questioning the bullshit stories that come out of 3rd and King Baseball Theme Park.
Promise Them Anything, But Give Them More Of The Same
Media Spinning the Baer propaganda just as predicted. And right on time too. This guy is turning into a regular West Coast reincarnation of the “People’s Daily Worker”:
From the same guy who went all breathless when there was a rumor floating around a couple offseasons ago about a supposed leaked report that had a list of names of players who allegedly tested positive for something that was positively absolutely against the rules, allegedly. And on that list was supposedly the name of Lamar, who it was said tried to get a ham n egger pinch hitter to claim alleged substance as his own or something along those lines that was totally irrelevant to reporting out that the Giants franchise was poised once again to spend 6 months and 162 games failing at baseball. Here’s the latest corporate drivel:
Its the Park? Really? Fuck it. Tear it down and get the taxpayers to pay for a more hitter-friendly park. Problem Solved
1993: “Give us a new stadium and we will be able to build the best stadium in the world to attract all the best free agents”
2003: “Paying off the new stadium precludes us from signing really expensive free agents, but mainly its Barry Bonds fault because he is too expensive”
2008: “No free agents want to come here because its a shitty park.”
Just keep reporting out the facts. And people wonder why MSM is about as trustworthy as “Read My lips…no new taxes”
Well. Read my lips.
No +mia money for you Mr. Giants moneybags.
Cue Up Benny Hill Music
Bill Neukom and Brian Sabean Conference Call October 13, 2009 with Bay Area Media:
From ESPN November 9, 2009
I thought there was a familiar aura (as well as aroma) surrounding Neukom’s and Baer’s and Sabean’s methods of explaining themselves. It took me awhile, and I had to go back 36 years to November 17, 1973 to actually find it, but find it verbatim, I did.
Adds a whole new meaning to “THE GIANTS WAY” of doing things.
I agree with Baggerly’s statement about Bochy playing Winn too much, but is this something he surmised, or did he get this directly from the Giants? If it came from the Giants, then it’s a telling indictment of this organization that they’ve given an extension to a manager when they have to work around his deficiencies.
I don’t imagine for a minute that Sabean or the marketing department that is running the Giants will consider trading Lincecum because they have repeatedly labeled him “untouchable”. I don’t know whether he is going to break down, but I don’t think he should be “untouchable”. But, given my own way, I would have re-signed Will Clark for a five year deal back in the day, so go figure.
Can you imagine any other Giants player or group of players that would get the value in trade that Lincecum currently commands (and may never be of higher value – almost certainly never)? I cannot, and frankly, I cannot see any other player or group of players getting any of the hot stars mentioned above. Personally I don’t think there is a down side to trading him if the Giants get a real top player in exchange along with some prospects. The fans love Lincecum but there is no reason to believe that love is reciprocated in a way that would be manifested by his continuing with the team when he himself must be thinking about his own longevity, his career (I assume he’d like to play for a serious WS contender) and his record.
The guy is freakishly valuable, but I get the feeling he is also like a beautiful ice sculpture. Even if the Giants do manage to sign him for Zito like money or more, that’s a huge risk. If they are not fully committed to taking that risk, they should certainly be thinking about trading him, the sooner the better, before his value drops.
While we’re all familiar with the excellent pitching of luminaries like Gibson, Koufax, Marichal, Seaver, and onto Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz, it seems to me, that the odds favor a great position player playing greatly for a longer period of time than they favor a pitcher pitching greatly over a similar number of seasons
Of course there are exceptions, but most pitchers, even those with long careers, do not dominate at their positions for as long as the exceptional position players do.
We all look with great fondness upon Jason Schmidt and Robb Nenn. But Schmidt was only excellent for 5 years, Nen for 7, Koufax for 5. Obviously Seaver who dominated for 17 of his 19 year career was the true freak along with Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson. But I have to believe those guys are the exception. The average great player plays well into double digit years, if for no other reason than the DH.
So I guess what I am saying is that trading a Lincecum for a like-rated position player makes sense in that regard. There is not a whole hell of a lot of downside to having a Hanley Ramirez or a B.J. Upton or any number of superstar quality position players. Its not like the Giants have anything other than Sandoval and Posey who are worth passing over for playing time.
The other thing, is that we know that unless a team scores about 750 runs, they have less than a 2 percent chance of even qualifying for the playoffs, let alone making it to a World Series. Even with above average pitching. The Giants scored almost 100 runs less than that this year.
Freddy Snatchez isn’t going to make up that difference, and neither is anybody else on the roster, in the system or on the horizon, for that matter.
On Tiny Tim
Just how durable is Lincecum and should the Giants trade him while his value is insanely high?
This is not a response to Lincecum’s pot smoking, although that is a small factor.
S.I. dubbed him “The Freak” because it seems impossible for a guy his size to pitch so hard. Face it, they have a point. Lincecum has an extraordinary talent, but how long can a guy his size keep performing at that level? Even in 2009 he showed signs of coming back down to earth. I realize he is considered “untouchable” as far as trades go and I question the wisdom of that position. He is very popular and I write these words full of trepidation about what sort of response they will receive.
Without necessarily advocating a trade I think it is interesting to consider the possibility.
Given that Lincecum’s trade value is very very high, does it make sense to trade his scrawny ass for a potential superstar everyday player? The possibility that he will continue to pitch like he’s been pitching for many years to come haunts me when I ask that question because it could happen. The possibility that he will break down, get injured or move to another team at the first opportunity also haunts me. My (perhaps overheated) imagination pictures him signing with the Angels, the Red Sox or the Yankees the day after he becomes a free agent, and it also, in my more cynical moments, has him signing for less money than the Giants try to throw at him at the last minute.
I have to ask, is it worth more having a really high chance of winning every fifth day, than it is to have a really productive offensive player playing every day? The cost of retaining him is going to be on par with Zito’s unholy contract, at least, and so would be the cost of retaining a franchise level everyday player. Which option would benefit the team more?
What about Hanley Ramirez and a handful of prospects? Backtalkers in other threads have been talking about acquiring Ramirez, but is there any realistic scenario where that happens that doesn’t include Lincecum? I don’t think there is, and after the 2010 season, if Lincecum’s value slides even that scenario may be invalid. And Florida has a lot of choice prospects they might be willing to part with for the opportunity to get Lincecum.
What about Evan Longoria and a handful of prospects? The Rays have to play in the hardest division in baseball. Would Lincecum tempt them?
I just throw those two out there, because I’m looking for youth, high potential, proven talent. Those are valuable players, costly players, and if the Giants are to get out of their current horrible offensive situation, just the sort of players they need.
If Lincecum flames out in 2010 or 2011, which is well within the realm of possibility, wouldn’t it be nice if he did so after being traded for a great everyday player? I think it’s worth considering, before it’s too late.
I guess it all depends on how durable you feel he is. There are still people out there who are convinced Lincecum will eventually break down, given his size and the way he pitches. Where you are on this “spectrum” of belief would obviously dictate how open you are to a trade.
Now here’s the other point (and I would bet +mia has probably stated this already): The Giants are all too aware of their own marketing. Timmy is an insanely popular player, and the Giants know this. I’m sure their reluctance to part with him comes not only from their baseball side, but from their marketing side as well. Maybe even more so.
Agreed!
Absolutely. This may or may not be the trade to make, but until and unless the Giants way of doing things changes, to include the type of smart high risk, high reward risks their competitors take, their fortunes on the field are not going to change. Which is to say they will continue to lose attendance. And not play meaningful games in October, much less November. And continue to be the bottom feeder of large market teams.
Unfortunately Sabean is safe and comfortable and fat in his role of Loser in Chief. The rest of MLB made the adjustments to his methodology of player evaluations and valuations years ago, and he hasn’t made the adjustment back. He is still living in the early 80s.
Just look at his mullet
Precisely. I don’t see Sabean having the cojones to pull off a deal like this – his last ballsy move was trading away Matt Williams. Has complacency completely taken over? After the Williams trade, I had a “holy shit I can’t believe he did that” feeling – it was bold, decisive, and put Sabean on the map. Never in a million years could I see him pulling off something similar. Suffice it to say, I just don’t see him getting creative and putting a package together for BJ Upton – something I would LOVE to see.
I think you should head over to Fangraphs and check our their trade value pieces. Here’s the recap:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2009-mlb-trade-value-recap/
There is no package we could put together for Longoria. Between his age and ability (both offensively and defensively), and most importantly, his contract, Lincecum isn’t even close to enough to trade for him.
Overall the premise of your thought is sound – position players are less risky than pitchers, especially long term (which is why the top of Fangraphs rankings are all position players). In terms of total value, Fangraphs estimations has the elite players and elite pitchers fairly comparable, with the position players probably being a little more valuable. The problem is finding someone who’s going to be a pretty equal value of Lincecum in both ability and contract factors. Even once you do, you know nobody out there is interested in merely swapping superstars – after all, it doesn’t really make sense since the fanbases have already attached themselves to said superstar and it can only look bad for the GM, which is why trades like that never happen. If we were going to deal Lincecum, it’d basically have to be for a package of super prospects, and you know the Giants ownership isn’t interested in dealing the face of the franchise for minor leaguers…
Lincecum was busted because the car REEKED like some Cheech and Chong scene in “Up in Smoke”.
They should have added driving under the influence of a controlled substance (similar to a DUI), but it requires a blood test at the station, something most police officers don’t want to bother with unless there is something more criminal involved in the situation.
Stupid kid. He is not an ordinary celebrity/athlete, he is about to get extraordinarily rich if he doesn’t fuck up.
This “harmless” substance directly affects some of the key physical attributes required to play Professional Baseball at a high level:
Slowed reflexes
impaired memory
distorted sense of time
Impact on personal motivation (goal seeking)
increases incidents of lung infections (esp. Bronchitis and Pneumonia)
reduced ability to react to changes
increase in rate of cellular aging
Lincecum is going to want $100 million from the Giants soon. Management should tell him to quit now, and submit to testing if he wants a big payday. Else they should consider trading him for half a roster of a lineup of real hitters.
Getting involved with drugs is the stupidest thing someone with the talent of Lincecum could possibly do, especially so close to one of those guaranteed $$$$$ paydays. What a fool. Hope his dad comes down on him HARD.
Here’s a newsflash – a lot of pro athletes at that age tend to party a bit hard – it’s just that some of them are a little better at being discreet about it than others (whoda thunk Agassi was doing crystal meth?). Part of this is the money and age, obviously. But most athletes have bodies that are capable of handling this and still go about their business. I’m not coming down on the right/wrong side of this issue, but I respect an athlete’s privacy to live their lives as they see fit – even if I may disagree with the choices they make.
Oh please. First of all, for the umpteenth fucking time, HE WASN’T HIGH BEHIND THE WHEEL. Just as I’d (or anyone) would be hard pressed to find evidence that he was pitching under the influence and “throwing baseballs at a 100mph in the vicinity of my guy’s head” while high on pot.
But you go ahead and make that jump from what in all likely was a dumb mistake of leaving a pipe and a bit of weed in the car to throwing at someone’s head while stoned or even piloting a commercial airliner while high (what a stretch). I never even came close to advocating such behaviour. Christ, if the jump you made between those assertions was any bigger, the ghost of Evel Knievel himself would rise from the grave and launch himself over it on a rocket powered motorcycle.
Let me wrap up my take on this, as we’re getting off track here Fish. My position simply stated is that there is a high correlation between recreational drug use, and career failure. Lincecum’s small frame, eclectic personality, and childish lifestyle have a propensity for rubbing the ptb the wrong way, as it is. Using rec drugs gives the front office suits even more reason to sit on a guy’s career.
He will be hounded in other cities for no goddamn reason other than being an idiot. The face of the franchise is going to be portrayed as a freaky little stoner dood, and the first time he stumbles, the media will be on him unmercifully. And every time he doesn’t dominate or his fastball dips below 94 mph the speculation will be running all over the place. I can’t even drive to the office in peace without some sports radio hack cracking wise or otherwise about this stupid shit.
Pro Athletes using recreational drugs is not helpful to their careers. And there is a high likelihood that it will be injurious. It is stupid based on that alone. Rod Beck, Steve Howe, Doc Gooden, Ken Camminiti, Daryl Strawberry Eric Show, Dale Berra, Keith Hernandez, Vida Blue, Dock Ellis. The list of shortened and terminated and wasted careers and lives is endless for the clowns who fucked around with recreational drugs and alcohol.
He is a stupid selfish kid. When you’re a pro player, you are held to a higher standard by the public whether you like it or not. Or whether anybody thinks its fair or not. Some guys thrive living up to those high standards. And the others careers will eventually wilt, die, and blow away.
And anytime you want to stand in against somebody throwing a 100mph who has a reputation for doing drugs, let me know. I won’t pay to see a Giants game, but I will pay to see that.
All excellent points. I’m glad this happened now, because if it was during the season, you’d hear grumblings from the media hacks about this affecting his performance. I’m in full agreement that it was a stupid thing to do, especially since no one really knows the extent of his pot smoking. It would suck if he had to go through all this for the occasional toke.
I also really wanted to emphasize that I’m talking about smoking pot, which I find relatively harmless, in moderation. We’ve all met our fair share of cheeba monkeys and know how useless they are as the result of doing bong hits around the clock. Rich Aurilia gets labeled a “gourmet” because of his extensive wine collection, but who’s to say he isn’t putting away a bottle or two of pinot noir a night? The players you listed were, for the most part, heavy cocaine users – something that I can tell you (but probably don’t have to) has a seriously detrimental physical effect, even in small quantities.
A little off topic but somewhat relevant.
I have a younger friend with a serious medical condition that causes him to have grand moll seizures as one of the symptons (not epilepsy) He has been treated at UCLA by specialists in neurosurgery, oncology, and cardiology. The only thing in the last 4 years that have prevented the seizures have been medicinal marijuana. And the team of specialist and researchers on his case have almost un
And like peds, I view all drugs as primarily health issues. They only become public issues when the effects have the potential for a “serious” negative impact on innocent bystanders. That all drugs have been lumped together by political hacks, agendists, and other stooges makes things even worse for society as Lincecum is about to find out.
At least it was in the offseason. So he has that going for him. Which is nice
The Giants Way
While the spinners spin themselves and the scribblers around the windosphere silly by pointing out a fluke 88 win season, here’s some of the real stuff, that took place between the end of the 2008 season and now.
Angel Villalona in prison accused of murder.
Barry Zito calling into the Giants flagship station to whine about how he loves himself and sees himself as a great pitcher.
Freddy Snatchez ending up on the DL list as soon as the Giants traded away their no. 2 pitching prospect for him.
Freddy Snatchez signed for 12 million over two years as free-agent when the Giants could have let him walk for $500,000.00
Traded away another pitching prospect for a useless sack of bench warming protoplasm masquerading as a 1b
Tim Lincecum missed the all-star game because of the flu
Matt Cain still showing a pathetic inability to be able to get outs when behind in the count.
The Giants finished third or worse in a 5-team division for the 5th year in a row, and missed the playoffs for the sixth consecutive year.
They again finished last or near the bottom in most fungible hitting categories.
The Front office is already making excuses for not acquiring at least one big bat, never mind the two they need to compete for a title.
Carney Lansford was thrown overboard and blamed for the Giants front office failure to acquire and develop position players.
Some career Mednoza Line hitter who was a pal of Sabean’s in his Yankee days was appointed as the next Giants savior hitting coach. He is noted for being able to speak 5 languages. Unfortunately none of them are pig-latin.
Tim Lincecum was popped for smoking dope while driving down I-5 at 8am in the morning. Sabean lucks into a once in a lifetime pitching machine, and the kid turns out to be a fucking stoner-skater fuck-off with about as much seriousness as Jeff Spicoli
Pablo Sandoval put on 40 pounds even while putting up an unsustainable .355 BABIP
Pablo Sandoval led the team in walks with 52 while their cleanup hitter had 13
Bengie Molina had an OBP of .285; 102 points lower than Pablo Sandoval. And the Giants tried to get him selected for the All Star Game.
The Giants paid Randy Johnson 8 million dollars for six quality starts. Which exceeded most intelligent baseball people’s expectations?
The Giants paid Dave Roberts 4 million dollars to do TV commentary for the Boston Red Sox
The Giants attendance was 10th in MLB
The payroll was commensurate with Kansas City in 14th place.
The top farm team at Fresno was 14th in a 16-team league in drawing walks.
The AA team was dead last in walks in a 12-team league.
In the Arizona Rookie League, they were 10th in BB an 11-team league
Bruce Bochy deliberately embarrassed Buster Posey and Madison Bumgarner, the Giants much ballyhooed and publicized number one and number two prospects during September by snubbing them in favor of his washed up useless garbage can poker buddies.
Bruce Bochy getting a new 2 year contract with a team option for a third
Jonathan Sanchez did throw a no-hitter, the only fucking thing that was recognized by MLB all season long. That and Lincecum leading the NL in strikeouts and unless you play fantasy baseball, it didn’t mean shit.
Brian Sabean getting a 2 year extension with a team option for a third
However, since the Giants Way is about Team accomplishments, the Giants did lead all of Major League Baseball in number of ethnic and multicultural special event promotional games.
So the Giants had that going for them…which was nice.
So much for the Giants way. Thanks Bill Neukom. Thanks Brian. Thanks Larry Sabean.
Can’t wait to see what the 2010 “Giants Way” will bring us. I’m sure it will be just splendiferous.
It was in 2008 that Lincecum missed the AS game because of flu. He started the 2009 AS game. Pitched two innings, faced ten batters, gave up two runs, one earned.
That is a mighty depressing list. The lack of plate dicipline in the minors is particularly troubling as it’s Neukom’s plan to “build from within” rather than sign any FA’s . If they don’t back up their pitching staff with some offense they’re going to lose the pitchers as quick as they can get away.
You’re absolutely right about Lincecum missing the 08 game. Thanks for pointing that out. And now that I recall, he prolly shouldn’t have had to allow any runs, as I think there were a couple of botched defensive plays or something? I don’t remember, and frankly, under Selig, the whole All Star thing seems about as compelling as an infomercial. The effort to lend credibility to it by granting home/away favoritism to the winning league really smacks of “bring your wife, your checkbook and your keys to Bud Selig’s Crap for clunkers program.
Lincecum was not “smoking dope” as you claim. He had a pipe in his car and 3.3 grams in the glove compartment. The trooper even noted in his report that Lincecum did not appear to be under the influence.
Well, that certainly changes everything. What part of “fucking around with recreational drugs” do people not understand?
What part of an athlete’s “private” life do you not understand? As long as it doesn’t affect his performance on the field, it isn’t anyone’s business what an athlete does when he’s out of uniform. It’s 2009. The fact that some people look at this and think “tsk tsk” yet wouldn’t bat an eye if he were photographed with a beer in his hand is ridiculous. Marijuana has been proven to be less detrimental to a person’s health than alcohol and tobacco, yet some parents still feel obliged to have a “talk” with their kids about the “dangers of drugs” after this incident.
If you have something original to offer, than go ahead and say it. Unless your comments start reflecting something other the usual blather found in every single msm comment section on the internet, you’re just a fucking troll. Go back to eating your paste
Man, you are one insecure person. Do you react this way every time someone doesn’t share your point of view? You’re generally spot on with your assessments of the Giants, but you’re completely in the wrong here. What Tim doesn’t in his private life is his business, not yours. No, it wasn’t smart to leave his pipe and weed in the car. But if he feels like ripping a bowl or two with his friends or by himself, it’s nobody’s business but his own.
I’m going to explain this one time, because I went back and read some of your previous posts over the past couple of years and I guess I got you confused with one of the idiots that show up here from time to time. So for that I apologize.
BUT. Here’s why I went off on your comment. The context of my inclusion of the Lincecum incident was not meant to be a discussion on the vagaries of controlled substances, recreational drugs, alcohol or any other damn thing that hasn’t been discussed to death elsewhere, everywhere by everybody. And I think you know that.
I included it in my laundry list of total shit things that the Giants were involved in, victimized by, or ended up being or doing stupidly in the last several months. Deeds, misdeeds, fuckups, stupid moves, bad judgement inside and outside the foul lines. Point is the kid got popped for dope. He dresses and acts like a fucktard. Rightly or Wrongly or Whateverly. The context of it was it is just one more thing in this neverending saga of horseshit, controversy, misplays, bad signings, bullshitting, that does not change with the current cast of miscreants running this rudderless ship around.
But since you want to make this an issue here’s my two fucking cents, and I’m not really that interested to begin with:
I don’t give a fuck about Lincecum’s private life anymore than the next guy. And I don’t give a fuck if he smokes every fucking plant in the Cascade and Coastal Mountain Ranges. But if a player is up for arbitration, and he’s 25 fucking years old and he’s bringing his game out onto the interstate reeking of Cheech and Chong, fuck him. He’s an irresponsible self-centered little prick and thats why I expect his career to flame out completely before he even gets close to thirty. The media loves him because he is different and as a result gives them more than enough story lines to write about.
I don’t want to hear any explanation. Fuck the media and their contrived controversies. The thought of him acting all contrite for the media makes me want to puke. There is no controversy here. What the Giants should expect from him is to go clean up his act, keep his mouth fucking shut, lose the Michael Jackson do, and get fucking serious about his career. I don’t give a fuck one way or the other. He’s no different than thousands of other little mall rats,except he throws a baseball better than anybody else in the world for the time being.
Skidrows in every major city are and have been full of former “can’t-miss” kids with million dollar arms and bats and 10 cent brains. The tragic tales are everywhere.
The Yankees have a personal hygiene code for a reason. Their guys look like ballplayers for a reason. The best players in the world will abide by that for the chance to win a world series and be part of the chase for a title every year of their career there. So they’re willing to go along with Steinbrenners house rules in the toughest and most cynical city in the country.
The Giants need to start competing for championships rather than promoting themselves as entertainment. They run a loose ship and are guided by spoiled rich fucks who have the means, but not the desire to compete against franchises who are the Ty Cobbs of this era. Mean, nasty sons-of-bitches who are and bent on prevailing every year and beating their competition (like the Giants) into the ground like a bad foster kid. The Giants are more interested in not hurting anybody’s feelings or offending some remote or irrelevant selfish interest group and have hardly a fucking thing to show for it.
And if you’re naive enough to believe that one mood altering recreational drug is globally harmless and another is not, than you really have no business discussing the topic in public where those even less informed than you might think you know what you are talking about.
OK, I get your point about the Lincecum situation being symptomatic of the overall ills that plague the Giants organization. And for the most part, I have to agree with just about every bullet point you listed. But as far as his performance goes, he’s simply one of the best in the league. As long as he keeps pitching the way he does, he can shave half his head and dye the other half green for all I care. I don’t think you can find anyone who’s watched him pitch this season who would say he isn’t one of the most competitive players in the orange and black.
J.J. Hardy has been traded to the Twins for Carlos Gomez. Does anyone else think the Giants could have been in the bidding, especially considering the final price?
The Twins acquire one of, if not the best fielding shortstops in the game who has been a pretty good hitter (not including this years disappointment, but I think we can all agree he should bounce back somewhat) and is under control for another couple of years for a slick fielding yet light hitting CF making league minimum.
Could the Giants have made this deal for somebody like Nate Schierholtz (Or a package including Velez or Lewis)? Maybe not, but Hardy was clearly available (and cheap by the looks of it) and would have represented as a good upgrade over Edgar.
Sabean was probably too busy still toasting his own success at re-signing Freddy Sanchez and drooling at the prospect of Jermaine Dye in LF to make a move.
My thoughts, too. We don’t have a comparable player to Gomez in our system (young, cheap AND MLB-ready with decent potential), but I’d have to think we could at least come up with some kind of package of equal or greater value if we were interested. I don’t know if Sabean looked into it or not, but I suspect he didn’t, for the simple reason that we don’t need a SS because we have one making $9M. If he’s making $9M, he must be pretty good, right…?
I was hoping we’d trade for Hardy. At that price, I really wish we had. Now I’ll move on to hopes for BJ Upton…
I recommend James Kossuth’s article about Ty Cobbs. It puts to rest the rumors about Cobbs’ killing someone, and addresses his base-running strategies – including stories about spiking players. It’s very informative. Cobb was a lot of things, but he wasn’t a cheater.
As far as the Hall of Fame goes, it has lost credibility if it doesn’t induct the best players; including Joe Jackson, Pete Rose, and Barry Bonds when he becomes eligible. I don’t think any of them “cheated”.
Thanks for the link. I’ll totally check it out and get back to you!
Pete Rose may not have “cheated” but he clearly gambled and bet against his own team, knowing full well the punishment for such actions would ban him for life. And he went ahead and did it anyway. As far as I’m concerned, that’s all that needs to be said. What part of “lifetime ban” do people have trouble understanding?
I think they ought to induct him and point out the fact that he gambled and was banned from baseball because of it.
Ostracism to the point of pretending something didn’t happen and somebody never existed went out a couple thousand years ago.
What part of “historical record” do people have trouble understanding?
If I were Andrew Petite I would have my post season wins tattooed on my arm like fighter pilots paint kills on their plane’s fuselage.
The HOF will never do anything like that. It is simply too corrupt in its administration and in its membership criteria.
I don’t believe he ever murdered anybody. I was not even aware that there was a story to that effect. My idea of cheating is not necessarily defined only by breaking the written rules. Taking guys out spikes high, while within the letter of the rules was still trying to injure a player was fucked up. He was constantly talking shit. Just a fucking runny mouthed pile of shit racist motherfucker. One of the pictures of him stealing home shows him jumping at the catcher spikes high. He was a fucking dirty ass player and if you want to split hairs on the definition of cheat and substitute dirty than fine. He was a dirty fucking player who broke “unwritten rules”. The code that players of the day lived by.
A complete and utter douche bag on the field, and off. That only 3 former players showed to his funeral in 1961 showed you the kind of ill regard he was held in by former opponents and teammates alike.
Yet for years he was held out by the BBWAA and MSM as some sort of role model with nary a word of his despicable deeds to provide context and perspective on his career. It wasn’t until 1994 when Ken Burns “BASEBALL” was released that a majority of people learned what a horrible person Cobb was.
Anyway, yes he was the dominant player of his era. Too bad he had to make so many enemies on and off the field with his insane and mean spirited ways along the way.
Ty Cobb wanted to play.
We couldn’t stand the son of a bitch
when we were alive…
…so we told him to stick it!
Field of Dreams
1989
Cobb, Bonds, the NFL and the HOF
I did not mean for anybody to infer that Cobb should not be in the HOF.
And one man’s interpretation of getting an edge as in Cobb’s case, filing his spikes down and cutting and mutilating guys deliberately which Robert chooses to chalk off as “a mean son of a bitch”, I call a form of cheating. This is merely a difference of opinion on the same behavior. Not worthy of exclusion from the HOF by any means as his on-field misbehavior was far outweighed by what his on-field accomplishments.
And yet there are those who views Bonds alleged ped use as cheating, without being a mean son of a bitch, and I call it getting an edge. For me, between the two, Cobb is much much worse. Even if you think the legal and not against the rules of baseball use of peds was cheating. And as such, “there is no room for cheaters in the HOF.” Bah…Fuckfaced poodle-pumping scrotum dwellers.
The difference is that Bonds does no harm to an opponent to get an edge. Bonds on the field was admired and respected and held in awe by most of his peers, unlike Cobb who was hated and despised and held in contempt by teammates and opponents alike. Cobb literally physically hurt and injured people to get his edge, and oftentimes just for the hell of it if he could get away with it.
Who the fuck is worse in their endeavors I ask you? Or more correctly the BBWAA voters who select guys for inclusion in the HOF. There still is no comparison between Bonds and Cobb in terms of egregious character and behavior issues, yet those who control membership go out of their way to disparage Bonds. Almost weekly. It is a travesty. But I digress.
My point is that the phonies who vote on such things are a collection of overly judgmental hypocritical know-nothings and know-a-little-bits. They choose to overlook behavior and character issues for people they favor, and exaggerate, or create issues for players they don’t; and they do it to an extraordinary degree in MLB HOF voting. It is an annual contentious and controversial political fuckfest, that makes for days and weeks of fodder for media twerps like Lupica, Verducci, Rosenthal, Plashcke, Ratto and the rest of the sour grapes crowd.
But to sully and accuse and embarrass those it is supposed to consider for honor and recognition, is self-defeating. Disparaging the accomplishments of former players may be fun and interesting for the internet crowd and drunks at the local sports bar, but it turns most fans off. It contributes to their cynicism and underlying feeling that baseball players are selfish and greedy and otherwise miserable and despicable human beings.
Again. Here’s the point. Baseball HOF is exclusionary and country-clubbed in its membership selection process. The NFL is inclusive and mandates 4 to 7 new members each year. (There have been years when nobody has gotten in the MLB except some old fossil owner or media turd from the early 1900s perhaps)
The NFL wants to HONOR and RECOGNIZE accomplishment. So you rarely, if ever hear its HOF nominees, brutalized and castigated and called out the way their counterparts in the NFL are.
MLB wishes to cull out players who do not meet some arbitrary and often times capricious statistical standard, as if honor and recognition of great accomplishment was a zero-sum game. Because there are so many unqualified scribblers involved in the selection process, the amount of garbage that comes out and is flung about is really more like a political campaign for a local sewer and waste-water management board of directors than a mechanism in which to honor the best players in Major League Baseball.
What kind of piece of shit organization inducts a fucktard like Bowie Kuhn whose most notorious achievement was scolding Jim Bouton, banning Willie Mays and Mickey Mantel and overseeing one of the worst periods of player relations in the history of the game? And then that very same organisation turns around and tells Pete Rose he is not worthy, that Joe Jackson’s accomplishments never happened, and mutters constantly under its breath to Bonds, Sosa, Mcgwire: “We’re not letting you in unless you grovel in the mud and shit for the next 10 years like field slaves and lick our shoes and say “yes massuh” 100 times a year on radio and tv.
People think about MLB HOF and it immediately becomes a point of controversy.
You don’t hear that kind of shit about the NFL. The MLB selection process is a travesty and resembles more a debate between the political left and the political right with more fucking dirt slung around than a night at a tractor pull.
To give you an example.
John chose to recognize a great career of unprecedented playoff performances by Andy Pettitte.
Immediately, a couple of folks crawled up out of the ooze to denigrate just about everything Pettitte accomplished. And they didn’t even realize they were doing it. Such has been the negative influence of the fourth estate, upon we, the unwashed members of the third estate.
There are many reasons the NFL has surpassed MLB in popularity in this country by a landslide. The HOF selection process is just one of them.
“the repulsively despicable criminal racist, cheater and drunk Ty Cobb”??
As a baseball player he had no equal. He was simply the best. Even though he was widely disliked he was the first player inducted in the Hall of Fame by right. Say what you will about the Hall or the people who decide who goes in or stays out, but Ty Cobb was and still is recognized as one of the greatest baseball players to have ever lived.
He probably was repulsive and dispicable, even his teamates disliked him, and certainly stabbing people is criminal, although I believe that was settled without any charges being brought, and he definately was a racist, like almost everybody of his generation and background, and when he was retired he drank too much. But I don’t think he was a cheater. I think he was just a mean son of a bitch who hated losing. The only reason anybody remembers or cares about his off field behavior is because he was one of the greatest ever to play the game. Only Ruth was greater, and Cobb never thought much of Ruth.
You forgot the part where Cobb jumped into the stands and started beating the crap out of a fan. Turned out the fan was crippled, and when Cobb found this out…he continued beating the crap out of the guy.
There was also the suspicion some had that Cobb murdered someone…
I also took mia’s comments as more making a point about the hypocrisy of celebrating Cobb and denying others for “character” reasons than a statement that Cobb shouldn’t be in the HoF or anything…
Alert!
11-5-09 Breaking news!
Giants to sign Hideki Matsui to 3 year contract with players option for 4th year
The San Francisco Giants are negotiating with Hideki Matsui’s agent on a reported 3 year, $18 million contract with a 4th player option for $5 million.
Brian Sabean has reportedly said, “Bringing a World Series MVP to the Giants is the next step in making this team more competitive in the tough NL West division. Matsui is a proven champion and will most certainly guide our talented young players to a NL title each of the next 3 years.”
Bill Neukom could not be reached for comment. He was out yachting with the other partners.
Update:
11/06/2009
Somewhere off the coast of Fantasyland
A yacht, registered to the San Francisco Baseball Company and flying under the flag of an unrecognizable country, was involved in a fatal collision with Navy Minesweeper, USS Caine, and was sunk.
A spokesman for COMCINCPAC, stated that although there were no survivors aboard the yacht “Watenfuken”, no charges would be filed at this time against the commander of the Caine, Captain Brian Queeg-Sabean.
Captain Queeg-Sabean is noted for the following:
* he grounds the ship on his first sailing, then attempts to cover it up while blaming his helmsman, Carney Lansford;
* causes the loss of a gunnery target sled by steaming over the target’s towline while distracted by a petty disciplinary action (and blames Buster Posey);
* hounds and court-martials Fred Lewis for being absent without leave;
* twice under fire leaves a battle area, once abandoning troops under his protection to fend for themselves; and once for garlic fries and Jack Daniels
* suffers severe migraine headaches from media inquires about Barry Bonds and rarely leaves his luxury suite;
* and becomes obsessed over the theft of a quart of strawberries, reliving an episode from early in his career in which he solved a shipboard theft by trading Matt Williams for Jose Vizcaino and Jeff Kent
Although Sabean-Queeg, is regarded as tyrannical, cowardly, incompetent and knowledgeable baseball contemporaries snub him as unworthy, believing him an oppressive coward, he eventually receives a two plus one contract extension and on his initial voyage, collided with the above mentioned yacht, “The Watenfuk
Further developments as they arise
John: can u strike the bold at the top…again
Thanks.
18-9 Postseason Record
That is a fucking insanely awesome accomplishment. In the regular season that is incredibly good. In many seasons, 18-9 will get a guy a Cy Young Award. It has many times in the last several years. To run up an 18-9 WL in 40 starts in post season is an unprecedented accomplishment. While it’s true a great pitcher might not win 18 post season games, because of lack of opportunity, the inverse is not correct. No way in hell does a pitcher who is not excellent, win that many decisions in post season.
Who gives a flying fuck who set the record for K/BB ratio. Or strikeouts per nine. Those are indicators. Not accomplishments of their own. The only fucking thing that counts in post-season is who wins the whole fucking thing, and Andy Pettitte has credit for more fucking wins than anybody in the history of post season.
If somebody wants to establish a hall of awesome fucking sabermetrics WAR, OPS+, WOR, K/bb and snore on and on…be my fucking guest. I read Bill James seminal Whatever Happened to the Baseball Hall of Fame? about 10 years ago. I agreed with a lot of his points. He makes really good arguements for guys who should be in, but are not, and for guys who are in, but who should not be. But basically why should I give a shit one way or the other?
The Baseball HOF has been defiled by the assholes who vote thumbs up and thumbs down on membership. The HOF is replete with, racists, drug addicts, violent criminals, white collar thieves, and just out and out non-deserving shoe scrapings who couldn’t carry Andy Pettitte’s jock.
When the assholes who control and influence such things, include the repulsively despicable criminal racist, cheater and drunk Ty Cobb, in their inaugural induction, yet choose to not recognize Joe Jackson and Pete Rose’s accomplishments, and rattle their drool-stained keyboards about excluding Mcgwire and Bonds and Clemens; leave out Goose Gossage, a monster reliever for years at a time, I simply think that Baseball’s HOF is a bigger fucking bureaucratic pile of shit than Payphone Park.
Any institution whose exclusive membership is controlled by the dimwits of the BBWAA, is an institution that even Groucho Marx would refuse entry into.
“…..Pettitte started and won all three clinching games for New York in this postseason.” And he has as, John says, three World Series clinching wins. Anybody else do this? That isn’t going or isn’t already in the HOF, that has 18 post season wins? Of course not. Only elite, championship caliber pitchers can even come close to something like this. The ordinary and the merely good simply do not accomplish those things; even with luck and opportunity. And to suggest otherwise is simply to be a fucking moron.
Whether Andy Pettitte belongs in the HOF is almost irrelevant for somebody like me who has no use for the Hall of Fame to begin with. If baseball ever adapted something similar to the NFL, then perhaps I would view it as something as other than an exclusive club for cigar smoking old fucks who have literally paid dues for 10 years before they even can vote. That means guys who have been covering the game for 10 seasons (two generations of ballplayers) don’t even have a vote. What a crock of shit.
The NFL selection committee consists of 44 members, 1 for each franchise and the rest “at large”. The ground rules for the Selection Committee which meets during SB week to release thier nominations stipulate
…between four and seven new members will be enshrined each year.
And anybody connected with the game can nominate a candidate for induction into Canton. In other words, the NFL wants to honor its players, and its contributors. The want people in their HOF. The BBWAA does not. They want it to remain like Augusta Country Club. An elitist resting spot for the swells and pals of the powers that be. Players who have toed the company line and done the owners bidding. They make players who were not lackeys and bootlickers crawl and grovel and beg, for admittance. They made Cepeda crawl. They made Gossage beg. They have made an unrepentant and pathetic Pete Rose grovel and beg and writhe for over 20 years and the BBWAA continue to pillory and villify him ad nauseum. Fuck the Hall of Fame’s membership requirements.
The Baseball HOF is a fucking disgrace. An institution with a former Bush Appointee as its President making decisions to accept Bonds’ record-breaking, yet deliberately mutilated homerun baseball and display it as such is an institution that is in need of extreme fumigation. And that alone makes the HOF not worthy to spit upon under its current direction and managment.
“18-9 Postseason Record
Thats a fucking insanely awesome accomplishment.”
C’mon Mia (and John), I know you guys are above simple W-L. 18-9 does say something, for sure – it says the Yankees have been a damn good franchise while Pettite was there. Attributing that record to Pettite as an individual is laughable. There are two things that count when it comes to winning games – preventing runs and scoring runs. As an AL pitcher, Pettite is already left out of half that equation (unless you want to count his 24 postseason PA’s). His job is simply to prevent runs. Only he isn’t the only party responsible for that, either. The defense has a large influence on preventing runs in addition to Pettite’s pitching. The end result is Pettite’s pitching means less to that W-L record than the Yankees hitting, by a large margin, and is far less than 50% of the input. That’s why attributing that record to Pettite as an individual is ridiculous. And yes, I know you know this already, but if you’re going to make that argument, I feel compelled to remind you why it’s wrong.
Strikeouts and walks aren’t indicators – they are accomplishments. A good pitcher strikes guys out and doesn’t walk guys, because those are the accomplishments that are in his control to prevent runs. Not that they’re the only things in his control, but they’re by far the most important in determining how many runs the pitcher prevents. Andy Pettite is good, sure, nobody is disputing that. What I have a problem with is you giving him a hell of a lot of credit for simply pitching with a good offense. That’s not an accomplishment on his part. That’s a bullshit stat that misleads and obscures his individual contribution.
Not gonna get into the HoF thing, are you surprised the BBWAA screwed it up? I’m sure not. My own preference is a small Hall, though, I’d much rather celebrate the truly great players that should be remembered generations down the line than good players who will be forgotten by all who didn’t see them play…
I am going to agree to disagree with you on this. I will try to condense my opinion into a single sentence.
Pettitte’s number of wins in playoffs is apart from anybody else’s in the history of baseball (Smoltz with 15 is second) and the fact that his most notable wins were World Series Clinching, his playoff record is Hall of Fame worthy on a recognition and achievement basis as opposed to the traditional statistical evaluation basis.
The HOF is not part of the judicial process and it should not be necessary to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the merits of inclusion, outweigh by a preponderance of evidence, the demerits of exclusion. See my post below for elaboration if you care to read another one of my run-on rants against the ptb.
Also that is more than one sentence. I lied. So sue me in the court of HOF voting
Yeah, he’s the same as he is in the regular season, but the playoffs are three series against the best teams in the league. Often, Pettitte has had to go through the same lineup as many as six or seven times to compile those exact same numbers as he has in the regular season. It’s not the exact same thing.
In fact, it’s not even close.
He’s had an extra season pitching in what you might call the Elite Major Leagues. To match what he’s done in the regular season is tremendous.
My point was that his playoff performance was actually worse than his regular season performance – but for reasons you stated, that’s expected. So I’m saying I think Pettite pitched just as well in both situations, but his results in the playoffs were not as good, which is just what we would expect.
The extra season of production might be a fair point. Those are innings he pitched, after all, and an extra 230 innings to his resume of good pitching is basically another very good year added on to his regular season stats. Can’t deny that those innings happened…
I’ll say that I have agreements and disagreements with John and the other posters about Pettite. Pettite, at his peak, was nowhere near other HoF pitchers. However, there’s something to be said about the consistency and longevity of Pettite – he’s been a very good pitcher for a very long time, and over his career he’s accumulated a lot of value and with 3 or so more productive years might be around the level of many other HoF caliber pitchers. So basically, he just did it in a slower, longer way. If you don’t think that warrants a HoF bid, well, I guess that’s your opinion, but you have to at least recognize that even if his peak was much lower than others, his career value/production is still pretty high and likely to go higher in the next few years (and possibly reach HoF levels).
As for the playoff argument, this is where I have to strongly disagree with John. His playoff success is 100% a matter of opportunity. He’s the exact same pitcher in the playoffs as he is in the regular season (which is what we’d expect) – 3.91 career regular season ERA vs. 3.90 playoff ERA. The stats that are less defense dependent than ERA and most in a pitchers control – strikeouts, walks and HR’s – are worse in the postseason than in the regular season (but we’d expect that because the playoffs have a higher level of competition). So…like I said, he’s the exact same pitcher in the post-season, and using that as a strong argument is basically saying playing for the Yankees makes a guy more worthy of the HoF, and I really do not agree with that.
finally baseball is done…which means we get to start thinking about november free agency and the winter GM meetings. this upcoming period really is one of the best times of the year to be a baseball fan. ah, refreshing mlbtraderumors.com every 10 minutes is THE way to follow the hot stove rumors.
meanwhile, i admit feeling good when looking at the mlb iphone schedule application this morning. yesterday, it listed “philadelphia phillies @ new york yankees, wednesday, november 4th” as the next game. this morning it lists “san francisco giants @ houston astros, monday, april 5th, 2010.” now that is exciting!
“we get to start thinking about november free agency and the winter GM meetings. this upcoming period really is one of the best times of the year to be a baseball fan”
Sorry to spoil your dreams, but remember Brian Sabean is running the show. It might be a good time to be a baseball fan, but I can’t say I enjoy this part of the season as a Giants fan…
Few dislike Sabean as much as I…but it’s fun getting consumed by baseball rumors.
Maybe we [perhaps foolishly] land Bay or Holliday. BUT do know they will get the Posey situation right, I do have faith. He will be playing.
Let’s say neither of the big left-fielder FA’s comes to SF. Then either bring me Uribe and/or Penny, COUPLED with a Nick Johnson…and we aren’t feeling so bad. Why? Posey + Johnson + what’s below:
Boys, Renteria will get hurt at some point and we’ll benefit. MadBum will play some role in mid-’10.
We have something to work with.
Being a very good pitcher for multiple World Series Winning Teams is not enough and should not be enough to make the Hall Of Fame. Being a very good pitcher for a team that makes the playoffs almost every year is not enough and should not be enough to make the Hall Of Fame. What is required and should be required is to be an elite pitcher regardless of the sucess of one’s team and not just one lucky enough to pitch for an elite team. Andy Pettite is not such a pitcher and therefore has no business being seriously considered for the Hall Of Fame.
Agreed, saying Pettite is a HOF’r is like saying Robert Horry should be in the HOF for his 7 rings with the lakers and spurs. Good player, not great landing in ideal circumstances.
Comparing Pettitte to Robert Horry is laughable. Horry was a role player, Pettitte was a starting pitcher for a team that went to the postseason 14 straight years, won five total rings, and has 18 wins in the playoffs.
John,
You are either missing or deliberately distorting Kevin’s point. Kevin is not saying Any Petitte’s vlaue as a MLB player is comperable to Robert Horry’s value as a NBA player. Kevin is saying that the arguements you are using for Pettitte’s Hall Of Fame worthiness would equally apply to Horry and this fact should really be all one needs to see the falacy of this arguement.
I agree with you, but if John’s point is that Pettite’s post-season numbers may turn him from an also-ran into a Hall of Famer, I think that will happen. I think that Pettite wouldn’t get more than a handful of votes for his regular-season career, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the HOF voters give him a much more favorable review for his playoff success. Remember that HOF voting is often inconsistent and at times bizarre.
I think that Pettite’s post-season record is excellent, but I don’t think that it should be enough to put him into the HOF. But I think that he will get in, possibly in his 3rd or 4th year of eligibility. It might depend on how thin the class of 20XX happens to be, as well.
what i learned from this years ws
great pitching does not beat great pitching if one is playing in a band box (if the entire ws were held at the belle and petco, the vast majority of those dingers would have been long outs)
defense does matter….and phili forgot to play it
good pen arms are not a dime a dozen…this was the worst collection of arms i have ever seen…amazing how one can hide a bad pen with an amazing offense
this season was way too fucking long
jeter may be overrated during the season. but the man is a machine in the post…step aside reggie, derrick is the real mr october