Comments on: …. Next season

By: Walter Guest

Walter Guest — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 05:17:53 +0000

That list:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2009-mlb-trade-value-recap,
leaves off Sandoval. He sould be about fifth there, ahead of Wieters.

Cain for Ramirez, for many of the reasons above, is probably undoable. But Cain for Ryan Zimmerman? That would make sense for the Nationals and the Giants. Then the Giants get a 400 OBP first baseman, move Sandoval to catcher and ba-da-bing, you’ve got a middle of the lineup.

See how easy that is?

By: Geoffrey

Geoffrey — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:29:53 +0000

I think you mistook my Milton Bradley comment. I wasn’t mentioning him as THE alternative to Hanley Ramirez because that is obviously insane as you mention but merely expressing my opinion on him as he had been mentioned in previous comments. Why do I consider him to be an interesting option? Because he could be acquired cheaply with a large amount of salary relief, or we might be able to dump one of our own bad contracts such as Aaron Rowand on the Cubs. In those circumstances Bradley becomes an avenue worth exploring at least.

By: Mark O'Connor

Mark O'Connor — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:49:57 +0000

As much as I’d like to get Hanley Ramirez, I think it is impossble. We’d probably have to give up Buster Posey (in addition to Cain and/or Sanchez)!

How about Adrian Gonzalez? San Diego is shaking things up–maybe they’d part with their star for the right package. They already cut ties with Jake Peavy, for example.

By: B

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:21:36 +0000

The good news is he only has 2 years left on his deal. Even in his down years he’s still a decent player, I think we could put up with two years of Bradley to get out of the Rowand contract earlier and actually get some production…

By: grega

grega — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:53:04 +0000

Bradley is only good for one year then he’ll explode and take half the team with him. That’s his pattern. If he’s the remaining piece to a championship caliber team he’s worth pursuing. But not as one of the cornerstones. He’s never been that player though other franchises have tried.

By: B

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:35:54 +0000

Lot of Milton Bradley bashing there, John. Milton Bradley isn’t the answer, I think we’re all on board with that. He does help, though – a .371 OBP is something we could desperately use, as you’ve pointed out often. If we could somehow swap Rowand for Bradley that’d be great. Again, not the answer, but a step in the right direction.

By: John

John — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:07:42 +0000

Milton Bradley? Really? That’s the alternative to Hanley Ramirez?

You guys have to be kidding somebody.

Milton Bradley’s career line, ..277/.371/.450 .821 OPS is nice, but, I mean, come on.

WE NEED HOME RUNS AND WALKS!!!!!!! WE NEED SPEED AND YOUTH!!!!

Milton Bradley is a 5% better than league average head case, he’ll be 32 years old when the 2010 season starts, his career high in runs scored is 78, his career high in home runs is 22, his career high in walks is 80…..

ARE YOU PEOPLE OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MINDS!?!?!?!

By: Geoffrey

Geoffrey — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:15:39 +0000

I agree with the principle of trading Cain now when he has most value although am wary of Sabean being able to pull off a decent trade. Obviously there is pretty much no chance that the Giants get Hanley. He would have to force the issue himself (ask for a trade) in which case every team becomes interested and the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox become favourites to get him. Still the thought process behind the initial idea is pretty much spot-on.

Milton Bradley’s name has come up a couple of times in the comments and I think he would be an interesting option for the Giants. Dream scenario though for me would be us engineering a three team trade where Aaron Rowand and his contract end up at the Cubs (I think he’d be a great fit there), Milton Bradley ends up as DH for an AL team and we get either one established star or a few promising prospects.

Also bad news on the Holliday front as it has been reported that he apparently favours playing in pinstripes next season.

By: B

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:10:10 +0000

Trade Cain for one of the 3-5 best players in all of baseball? Absolutely, no hesitation whatsoever. Sandoval + Ramirez + Posey is a fantastic foundation for the future, especially since that fills C + SS – the two hardest postiions to fill in baseball, leaving us with the easy task of surrounding them with decent players at the other positions (where decent players are abundant). Throw in a prospect (remember, prospects, especially pitching ones, don’t become impact players more often than they do) who’s at least 1-2 years away from being a major league starter, lost a significant amount of velocity on his fastball, had fringy breaking stuff to begin with and saw no improvement in that area, and posted a 5.8 K/9 in AA last year? Yep, I’d throw him in there too without hesitation.

There’s a reason we have to include a top prospect with Cain (and we still probably need to include more) – because Hanley IS that much better than Cain. Don’t get fooled by Cain’s ERA this past season – he’s been the exact same pitcher the last 4 years – that is, a very good pitcher, but one who’s helped out by our defense and especially our ballpark (flyball pitcher in a ballpark that suppresses HR’s = good). 3.96, 3.78, 3.91, 3.89 – those are his FIP’s for the last 4 years. Talk about consistent. 190.2, 200.0, 217.2, 217.2 – IP over that time. Very good player, yes. Close to Hanley? No. Close to Lincecum? No. Also – Hanley has a 6 year/$70M contract that started this season (5 years $64.5M left). That’s a pretty amazing contract seeing how he’s 25 and on the career path reserved for first ballot HoF players (and by all accounts has a work ethic that matches anyone else in baseball). Cain’s contract is nice, but he’s only under team control for 2 more years.

Even without Cain, we still have Lincecum, who’s arguably the best pitcher in baseball. We have Sanchez, who truth be told is about as good as Cain per inning, though he’s never shown Cain’s ability to go 200+ IP, and doesn’t have the same consistency (but also has as much potential as any other pitcher in baseball). We have Zito, who was actually useful this year. We can offer someone like Penny the 4th spot. With good D, that’s still a very solid rotation.

You’re right though, there’s no easy fix – like I said I am concerned that any trade we make will simply be a horizontal trade in that we give up as much in run prevention as we gain in run scoring, but hey, there are times to take risks, and with Cain’s ERA inflating his value this past year more than at any other time in the past (as I pointed out, he’s been the exact same pitcher for 4 seasons now), I think now’s the time to take a risk.

Because I like evidence – a link to illustrate just how good Hanley is:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/hanley-and-potential-history#

By: Mark O'Connor

Mark O'Connor — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:04:59 +0000

Agreed: Josh Johnson is a beast, and Ricky Nolasco is right behind him. With Andrew Miller, Chris Volstad, Anibal Sanchez, and Sean West, the Marlins have a lot of young arms and don’t need to pursue a guy like Cain. But I covet Hanley Ramirez as well!