One of the backtalkers feels that I’m being too harsh on Molina. Horseshit.
Molina finished the season with an OBP of .285. That is the worst on base percentage in the entire National League, and second to only Yuniesky Betancourt, who posted an astonishing .274. He made 400 outs, and scored 32 runs outside of his 20 home runs. 32 runs scored in over 500 plate appearances is absolutely horrible. Between never walking and being one of the slowest players in the game, he is the ultimate rally killer.
Gamer? Give me a fucking break. Played his heart out? How about not swinging at every pitch for a change? Game after game, at bat after at bat, Molina destroyed any chance for the Giants offense to be effective. And then, after being a fucking out machine of the absolute highest order all season long, he made sure, that when the team brought up Buster Posey, even though the team was essentially eliminated, the team wouldn’t get a chance to see the young hitter in action in the majors, thereby hindering his chances for next season.
And let’s not forget that, when he was coming back from injury earlier in the season, he bitched about being unappreciated, pressuring Bochy to replace the surprisingly effective Eli Whiteside.
Someone who gives his heart and soul for the team would make choices that enhance his team’s chance to win. A player who is unselfish might learn to take a pitch now and again. He might appreciate a chance to mentor a young catcher. He’s not being paid by the at bat. He’s not being paid by how many times he swings. Molina is an old, slow, selfish and undisciplined player, one who contributes virtually nothing in the context of what it takes to be a winning team.
He is the embodiment of what is wrong with the San Francisco Giants, a symbol of the inefficient players that Brian Sabean values.
51 Backtalkers
My wife of 17 years had never heard me swear. I had been through two long wars and worked in the field with an all male survey crew so she wondered.
She asked me, “Do you ever swear on the job?”
I replied, “Every fuckin’ sentence.”
My point is it’s all right to swear when it’s appropriate. It’s not appropriate on this baseball blog.
Um, I’ve been at this for seven years now, and if I feel like the word fuck is needed to make my point, or to accentuate an argument, or just because I wanna use it, so be it. Grownups actually use whatever words they feel appropriate. With all due respect, if you don’t like it, go somewhere else.
John,
Relax dude….the seasons over. This is your site….and OBM needs all the followers it can get. No need to jump the guy. Appease your followers when needed…and keep your style any way you like. 75% of us tune in for +mia’s rants and opinion column. Not trying to tell you what to do…sometimes it’s best to ease up a bit.
Took almost three weeks away from baseball…especially the Gigantes…and am having a btter time of it. No pun intended…but baseball doesn’t always matter…and I played the game for over 25 years…and at times thought that was all that mattered in life.
By the way…you are spot on about Molina.
Well some may tune in for my rants; but I tune in for Johns insight, writing style and fresh outlook.
I know what I think (at least 24% of the time…at least!). I’m more interested in what everybody else thinks.
I wish John would post more, and if not post more, at least comment more and tell the ones sucking on Giants garlic cocksicles to find new pacifiers.
+mia,
Agreed…wasn’t trying to insult or minimize John. My point was…there was no need to commnet on that post. I ignore employees who try to draw me into the ring…because we all know…if you enter the ring…there’s a good chance you’ll get slaughtered.
heheh. agreed.
Horseshit…
Molina… same thing.
Molina’s physical conditioning for a man of 35 was a disgrace. If he truly took pride in his team approach he would at least have shown enough courage to mix in a plate of broccoli once in a while. He is/was one of the most selfish hitters to ever disgrace a Giants uniform.
Bengie Molina was the centerpiece and model for the Brian Sabean offense in the post-Bonds era. You know. The one that has scored under 700 runs in each of Molina’s three years here as “the heart” of the Giants offense.
Molina was the piece that Sabean built around with guys like Rowand, Renteria, Sanchez, Winn and the rest of the little to no-talent AAAA system players, supported by cadavers like Rich Aurillia, Mark Sweeney, Steve Finley and Shea Hillenbrand.
This is not an offense that Sabean feels hamstrung by. This is an offense that Sabean brags about for fucks sake! Its made up of gritty gamer guys playing ball the Giants way, the right way. What the fuck is the matter with all of you people? You obviously don’t know talent. Can’t you see the genius that is Sabean.
Sabean is the ultimate contrarian. Fuck OBP, OPS, Wins above replacement, capacity to work a pitcher over, great physical conditioning and strength coupled with great athleticism. Fuck all that shit. Sabean can sign every fat fucked, rolly polly toast and jelly 20 times a day addicted foreign national for half of a Mark Texiera, Jason Bay, Adam Dunn, and Bobby Abreau and field a collection of Jenny Craig dropouts the likes that haven’t been seen since John Candy and Chris Farley went to the big Baskins Robbins in the sky.
The Giants may never see better than third in the NL West again. But at least they will dominate the mvpgs (Most Valuable Post Game Spread) voting
Thats why they will never ever ever win a world championship. Sabean could be GM in NYC or any of the bigger market successful clubs and he would have them in the bottom of their division in no time.
When you use 1980s technology and knowledge and conventional wisdom to sign players who best years were in the 1990s, to try and win in the 2000’s you are bound to disgrace yourself and your franchise in the process.
Great job in re-signing this idiot Nuekom. Just great. If that’s the best you can come up with after one year on the job as Managing General Partner, Dartmouth must have been giving out law degrees with correspondence courses. And the fact that you were the mouthpiece for one of biggest collection of corporate pricks to ever bully the U.S. consumer, does not surprise any of us in the least.
Enjoy your continuing failure. Wearing a stupid ass fucking high school jacket with a bow tie to a ball game when you are pushing 70 years old, may impress the fucktwits in Pacific Heights, but it just makes you look exactly like the know-nothing-in-over-his-head-rich-prick that wants to show off his new toy, that you appear to be.
Neukom does not stand a chance against Artie Moreno, Hank Steinbrenner, Jeff Loiria, John Henry, or the MacCourts.
Not now, not ever.
+mia,
Spot on. A big Amen from the congregation.
I’m not sure if any of you guys read Joe Posnanski but his latest post (linked to above) on what makes Theo Epstein great as a GM only helps highlight what makes Sabean so terrible. Here is an excerpt of Theo defending JD Drew over low RBI totals:
“Based on his skill set, he’s always going to have underwhelming RBI totals. I couldn’t care less. When you’re putting together a winning team, that honestly doesn’t matter.”
“And the reason he scores a ton of runs is because he does the single most important thing you can do in baseball as an offensive player. And that’s NOT MAKE OUTS. He doesn’t make outs.”
“You guys can talk about RBIs if you want, I just … we ignore them in the front office … and I think we’ve built some pretty good offensive clubs. If you want to talk about RBIs at all, talk about it as a percentage of opportunity but it’s just simply not a way or something we use to evaluate offensive players.”
So, Bengie Moilina’s OBP is .285. That means his “Out Percentage” is .715 or to put it simply, over 70% of the time he comes to the plate, he makes an out. That is why he is one of the worst everyday players in baseball.
Brian Sabean really doesn’t seem to understand this, that not making outs is the most important thing to do as an offensive player. I’m still clinging to the hope that Nuekom might push Sabean into a more senior role and actually hire someone with half a brain (hey Kevin Towers just became available) but in doing so I’m only setting myself up for disappointment.
Awesome post Geoffrey.
The gutless media fucks in the San Francisco Bay Area read this shit but they don’t confront Sabean and they sure as hell aren’t going to confront Baer and Nuekom….don’t want to fuck with the media-suite amnesties and choice seating on team charters.
So much for Jenkins, Oestler, Baggarly, Shea, Shulman, Moore, and the rest.
The only Bay Area Mainstream media guy covering the Giants with any sort of integrity is Glenn Dickey who routinely calls out Sabean on his failures.
Of course Dickey eschews the media suite most of the time when he is at PacBell, preferring to walk around the yard talking to you know…REAL FANS and knowledegable FOLLOWERS. Not sucking off some Giants PR hack. Here he talks about how Sabean needs to go.
Not in depth, simply right.
Oh man, “league average for a catcher”? Have people not noticed that a) catcher offense has gotten better over the years, and b) even though Molina’s OPS+ for catchers is 100, that drastically overstates his offense since he barely walks.
Pitches per plate appearance (P/PA) is an indicator of how free swinging a team or an individual player may be as opposed to being patient and selective. It is not surprising to learn that the Giants, as a team, had the lowest P/PA in the National League this season: 3.62 compared to the league average of 3.82. There is no direct correlation between low P/PA and winning, but it does necessarily translate into opposing starting pitchers pitching deeper into games.
Of the 86 National League players who had a sufficient number of plate appearances to be ranked by baseball-reference.com, Benjie Molina placed 86th – or dead last – with a P/PA of 3.22 (league average was 3.81).
Counting up from the bottom we find Sandoval in 80th place, P/PA of 3.44; Rowand in 79th place, P/PA of 3.47; Winn in 64th place, P/PA of 3.72; Renteria in 61st place, P/PA of 3.75; and Freddy Sanchez in 55th place, with a just below league average P/PA of 3.80.
No qualifying Giants player ranked above average. Not one.
On Base + Slugging Percentages (OPS) is an indicator of a team’s or an individual player’s hitting performance. It is not surprising to learn that the Giants, as a team, had the lowest OPS in the National League this season: .699 compared to the league average of .739. Dead last.
Where do our same six qualifying players rank as hitters?
Out of 86 ranked players, Renteria ranked 85th with OPS of .635; Winn ranked 81st with OPS of .671; Molina ranked 69th with OPS of .727; Rowand ranked 61st with OPS of .738; Sanchez ranked 58th and beat the league average of .739 by 3 points with an OPS of .742. Sandoval was the only bright spot, ranking 7th who had an OPS of .943.
Molina, Renteria, Winn and Rowand batted a combined 1988 times this season, 36% of the Giants total AB’s. This is the offense Sabean signed. This is the wrecking crew Bochey sent to the plate, again and again. These are the masterminds Neukom wants running the team.
You forgot the part where we felt the need to upgrade our offense so we traded prospects for Garko and Sanchez. Meanwhile, Fred Lewis, he of the .791 OPS last season that’s OBP heavy (which is good), and .738 OPS this year, who sees 4.15 pitches per PA, is on the bench. We had someone that could provide that exact upgrade for us, and we gave him 5 starts after Aug 8. We continued to run Randy Winn out there, we ran Torres out there, we ran Velez out there, but the one player we had on our roster that could help us where we desperately needed help (I believe Posey could have, too, but we won’t count that) was glued to the bench. I hope the Giants trade Fred to someone that recognizes the value he provides. He’s not the greatest player ever, but he’s an average starter for basically the minimum salary – players like that are valuable and every team needs them. He should be pissed to have his talents and the few years he has to make a living ruined by this joke of an organization that still, in 2009, has no idea how important not making an out is.
Well if you want to see what the masses are expected to swallow read this shit..
Baggarly has lost his objectivity, even beyond Bonds, it appears. Hardworking and loyal, yes. But taken in by his betters or a complete no-nothing who would be better off working in the Giants PR Department. Seems like he doesn’t like to ask questions that might rankle the mulleted goof from Gilligan’s Island
Not even a mention of Fred Lewis, no surprise there.
“They’ll watch Buster Posey in the Fall League, and while they think he’s ready defensively, they wonder if he’ll be prepared to carry the offensive load to be the everyday catcher next season. They said there’s a huge jump from Triple-A to the majors, so they won’t be too swayed by his minor league numbers. It very well could be a decision that’s made in spring training, Bochy said. Bringing back Bengie Molina “should receive due consideration,” Sabean said. I’d expect Molina’s return to be less than a 50/50 proposition, though.”
Did they just watch Bengie this year? He’ll be one year older and one year fatter and one year worse, if they want to get someone else that might actually have a chance to be better than Posey as a rookie, there’s an argument that would make sense. But you basically can’t be any worse than Bengie. If Posey is ready defensively, and won’t be worse than Bengie offensively (but might be much, much better)…I just don’t get it. I don’t see how people still don’t see how oblivious Sabean is to the things that matter on offense. All the crap he says publicly is actually what he really believes. I didn’t understand how Sabean got his contract extended a couple years ago, and I really don’t see how he got it re-upped now. HIS FAILINGS ARE SO PAINFULLY OBVIOUS. Sabean and Dayton Moore must have some serious blackmail on the commissioner or something, because I just don’t see how they can possibly still have their jobs.
Here’s the thing that gets me. Bengie Molina is a walking, shuffling, slouching, gold-plated, sleep-inducing, over-eating fucking out machine. As John says, his out rate is 71.5% of his plate appearances.
I wouldn’t bring the guy back to pick up towels for Murph.
And the 3 year centerpiece of the Giants offense, don’t forget.
Sabean. Genius. In a Lex Luthor sort of way.
B~
How I wish I could forget. The Giants have been promising a youth movement for 3 years but what they’re running is a retirement home. Sabean is handing out pensions and Bochy is right in step, sending in these geezers day after day. From Pac Bell, to SBC, to AT&T, to AARP. At this rate we’re all going to die of old age before the Giants win a WS. They’ll install wheelchair ramps in the dugouts next. Fucking Giants. Fuck Fuck Fuck.
The list of players who have gone from the Giants to the broadcast booth, or to work at 7-11, is simply staggering. Roberts, Dunston, Alou, Santiago, soon, we’ll see Aurilia, possibly Molina. Remember Mark Sweeney, who Brian Sabean went out of his way to acquire to be our everyday first baseman? He was 12 for 92 this season for the Dodgers. Edgardo Alfonzo? The SF Giants are the last place a player can earn a paycheck before riding into the sunset.
Having a veteran or two on your team to teach the ypung players how it’s done in the big leagues is fine, many, many teams have gone that route successfully. The Giants have taken that simple tenet, and run it to it’s absolutely absurd conclusion; a team of old players who sit and watch the one or two young whippersnappers run real fast, and comment on how they need to, “Slow down, sonny. The work will be there tomorrow.”
This organization has become a bad joke.
What’s an even bigger joke is the complete lack of any intellectual curiosity, integrity, or diligence on the part of any of the mainstream dorks who cover the Giants on a regular basis.
If they would do their job and report and ask real questions instead of just regurgitate Baer’s press releases and broadcast the idiotic, monotony of Sabean Bochy Baer and Neukom, then there might be some reality exposed to the teeming mass of fools who believe the bullshit shoveled at them by the Giants Front Office.
But other than Tim Kawakami and Glenn Dickey, the rest of the hosers in the Bay Area mainstream, are just paid megaphones for the propaganda coming out of 24 Willie Mays Plaza.
The same bunch who spent years taking pot shots at Bonds on an almost daily basis. Speculating to no end on the malfeasance and sinister effects of Barry’s every move, every personal relationship in spite of his carrying this piece of shit franchise on his back. Never ever once confronting the almighty fucktwits in the front office.
The same bunch of ethical jackals who pimped Selig and Magowan’s All Star Fiasco and continually castigated Bonds when he refused to participate in the exploitative farce, and used the time to try and heal his wrecked knees one last time to ACTUALLY HELP HIS TEAM FUCKING WIN GAMES instead of playing politics with Bud Fuckbucket and Larry Bullshitbear.
Why the fuck didn’t these fuckfaces ask Sabean about Kent’s comments a couple of weeks ago when Kent told KNBR he was virtually told to take a hike by Sabean when Kent was informed by Sabean they were going to sign Alfonso and Durham and that the Giants didn’t want to pay him what he was worth in the open market. How many titles have the Giants won since then?
Fucking Zero. Thats how many. Fucking douches in the Bay Area Media are nothing more than a collection of pansy-ass, limp wristed butt blugs for the Giants front office.
And Krukow? He used to be an honest guy, telling it from the ballplayers perspective. Now he sounds like a non stop pimp for Joe Putnam Buick “bring you pink-slip, wife and kids for the car deal of the century”. Oh wait, thats what he is. Never mind. Tell you what Kruk. Tune in the MLB tv network if you want to hear and see professional evaluation by former ballplayers, and not pimping for a collection of fat, overpaid, overage, useless garbage riding roughshod on a bench full of no talent AAAA players.
The whole collection of vomit spillage and hippo entrails masquerading as the team formerly known as the San Francisco Giants has almost pushed me to the tipping point, where I hold them with as much contempt as the Raiders. The difference is that Al Davis and the Raiders don’t give a fuck about the cocksuckers in who cover them.
So at least Davis has that going for him.
Which is nice
I’ve been catching up reading OBM the past couple days…and wanted to bring this up. I got severely blasted on this site in late April for saying Torres and Shierholtz should be playing over Rowand,Winn, and Lewis…or at least platooning. Especially for mentioning Torres. In the end,Torres had the 2nd highest slugging next to Sandoval…and brings a much needed speed element to the Gigantes. He is an upgrade from Rowand in all aspects…and would be a 20+ hr/20 sb’s if played regularly. Laugh all you want…because the joke is on us next year with Rowand,Renteria, and most likely Sanchez in the fold.
All of you who said we are the dupes…are spot on. The Gigantes make a ton of money serving up an average brand of ball…so expect much of the same next year. This would not happen in a real baseball town.
Life w/o the Gigantes is not that bad.
who blasted you for wanting to play anyone over rowand and/or winn?
surely not i
Unc Joe,
B for one lambasted my thought process on this. I’ve pretty much agreed with you Unc for the last three years…and as I recall…at the start of the 08 season you and I were calling for a rebuilding process…which never happened.
During the year, in the games I watched…I kept a running total of how many times Rowand missed the cut-off…mind you I missed over 40 games…and the total I have is 47. That’s at least every other game. He is fundamentally unsound…and you never hear Krukow say a thing. And that’s not his worst fault…he watches the ball out of the box every time he makes contact…this costs him at least a full second down the line. Amazing this wasn’t corrected in college or high school. Check it out next year.
Normally your best athlete is in CF…this he is not. Would love to see Velez in CF…because the Pharoh is not a 2b…and it only screws up his hitting playing him there. I cannot tolerate watching Rowand another year…and may skip 2010….at least watching the Gigantes. Totally unproductive…and only increases your anger mgmt problems.
I wanted Lewis to excel so bad…just knowing his life story. But, fielding is not his only problem. He has a long swing…and has needed to shorten it for years to succeed at this level. Has one of the highest k/ab ratio in the league.
Now for something completely different…The Niners are on the right track…and the division is theirs to have. Anything can happen in the playoffs. Hill is not pretty…he just wins…and that is the only thing that counts.
I’ve always respected your opinion Unc Joe. Keep it up.
You’re completely right about Rowand. I don’t know why fans buy the Giants “gamer” bullshit- it’s not just that Rowand isn’t good to begin with, it’s the things that you pointed out – he doesn’t play the game the right way. They market guys like him as playing the game correctly, but he’s the exact opposite of that, like you said! He doesn’t hit cutoffs. He doesn’t take walks or pitches he can’t hit. He swings at sliders that are 1-2 feet off the plate for christsakes! That’s supposed to be “the right way to play”? Basically he runs into a fence in Philly, breaks his nose, and nothing else in his entire career matters, somehow that one incident means he plays the game the right way. Absurd.
If anyone plays the game right it’s Torres. Solid fundamental D, knows what he’s doing on the basepaths, patience on the plate and willing to take a walk, strikes out a little much but oh well. I dunno if he has the physical talent to be a solid everyday player, but if you’re going to market someone that “plays the game right”, at least choose someone who actually does that, like Torres.
I think Velez has to be a CF to be useful, too. Doesn’t hit enough for RF or LF, simply put cannot play infield D (but his speed in the outfield means he could be really good with a little work)…I wouldn’t mind a Velez/Torres platoon, just to see how it works. Not sure Velez’s D will be good enough for CF, but he has the physical talent at least, so there’s a reasonable chance. No way that combo is any worse than Rowand. Put Rowand on the bench as a platooon/backup for Lewis and Schierholtz (assuming we don’t pickup a legit corner OF).
As for your concerns with Fred, I agree I’d like to see him strike out less and he has trouble keeping his swing short. However, the thing is, a strikeout is basically just another out (the research done on it shows it’s not really significantly worse than other types of outs), and Fred Lewis is well above average in not making outs. So it’s ok, he’s still a productive hitter despite that issue. I’d bat Lewis leadoff – once a game he comes up with nobody on for sure, so in that case an out really is just an out, and most other chances he won’t have the opportunity for a productive out that moves runners up or anything, so his strikeouts just won’t have any impact. What matters most for a leadoff hitter is getting on base, something Fred Lewis does better than anyone on our team except Sandoval. Again, his D looks bad, but speed goes a long way at a corner OF spot in making up for most of that (as we’ve previously discussed).
B,
Funny you should bring up Rowand running into the wall. My brother has been saying for two years that he was given the gold glove for that reason alone…and his friends in Chicago say he was a complete hack in CF for the Sox. This “gamer” label is total BS…embellished heavily by Krukow…who supports this unwritten code for veterans. Rowands bb/so ratio(4.17) is one of the worst in all of baseball for position players…only to be outdone by Molina who has the worst in all of baseball @ 5.23. This stat alone should justify Molina as sub par…not even average.
I agree Lewis/Torres platoon situation in Left for 2010 would be good. And yes…you are right…a so is just an out…and not that damaging at lead-off…where Lewis needs to bat. I would like to see Fred get one more shot. The great thing about the season being over…is that I no longer rage at the site of Rowand…either in CF or the batters box. Knowing he’s due 13+ mil for next season is criminal. The only thing Rowand is good for is a spot starter when Velez/Shierholtz/Torres/Lewis need a day off.
Just for laughs and cocktail party fodder:Rowands 2009 numbers
.319 obp/.419 slg/.261 avg/61 r/15 hr/64 rbi/30 bb/125 so
What a piece of shit year…not to mention his fundamentally sound outfield play and baserunning. He’s a total embarassment.
Yeah Baby…send me a few more “gamers” like him….and we’re on the hook for a couple more years.
I think Unc Joe said it best a couple months back…”I would be pan handling for quarters outside 7-11 if I performed like Sabean”.
Pray for a miracle.
Yeah? And if I saw him panhandling for quarters after that display I would spit in his cup, knock over his guitar case, and choke out his dog.
Then I would tatoo a team picture of AJ Piershyitski, Barry Zito, Edgardo Alfonso, Mark Sweeny, Edgar Renteria, Shea Hillenbrand, Matt Morris, Dave Roberts, Aaron Rowand, Armando Benitez, Jamie Wright, Ryan Klesko, Steve Finley and Felipe Alou oh his eyeballs.
You’re preaching to the choir about that Rowand stuff. I live in Philly, they love him here for that. Anytime someone makes the connection that I’m a Giants fan and Rowand is on the Giants, the only thing they talk about is that catch. Of course, Rowand did have one great year in the joke of a ballpark they have out here, but nobody brings that up. It’s just, “did you see when he broke his nose?”
Fucking one play (and the fact that he came back to play shortly after) made his career. What a joke.
Note: Philly Fans, despite loving Rowand, are happy the Phillies didn’t keep him.
B,
Philly is a good sports town. The fans can be rough…but, there is no doubt in my mind they are glad to be rid of Rowand. The fly’n Hawaiian proves that on a daily basis. I work on the East Coast at least one week a month…and it’s a nice change a pace from the Bay Area. The Gigantes fans deserve what they’re being served…until they start voting with their dollars…and quit paying the high prices for mediocrity that Bair,Sabean, and the rest of crew are serving up.
I recieved Sabean’s year end email yesterday….total shit. It’s time to forget about the Gigantes for a while…and with Sabean and Bochy returning along with Renteria and Rowand…maybe for 2010 as well.
If Sabean were in Philly…he’d be lynched in the town center.
I’ll admit I was adamantly against Torres for the better part of the season. Appreciative of his production, but skeptical of it continuing. I’m still not on board with Torres being for real. At this point I really just don’t know what to make of him, he’s been terrible every other chance he’s gotten at the MLB level, and was pretty bad for most of his career in the minors, too. That said, I guess his last couple years in the minors have been pretty decent and a huge improvement…it’s just so unlikely that someone as bad as he was would all of a sudden become a decent player in his early 30’s that I can’t make myself believe. I am at least open to the possibility of it at this point, though, which is more than I can say before. I’d also rather run someone out there that at least has a chance of being good over someone I know to be not good, and old and getting worse (Rowand). I wouldn’t mind at the minimum giving Torres a shot to platoon.
That said, Nate simply is not as good as Lewis, and should not play over him. That is simply a fact. He was just as bad as Winn this year, but a smart organization would run Schierholtz out there (instead of Winn) because at least he has a chance of improving, whereas Winn will only get worse. It’d also be smart to figure out if Schierholtz is part of our long term plans, since he’s cheap, young and cost controlled for a decent amount of time.
B,
Totally agree….except Nate’s arm in right…especially at AT&T is a serious weapon. By the way…Torres has added 20+ pounds of muscle since 2006…and it shows with the pop in his bat.
By the way…thanks for the concession on Torres. We all want the same thing…the Gigantes to better themselves and field the best players. I will not watch another year of Renteria and Rowand…and the fact that the gullible SF fans buy into this marketing shit really doesn’t surprise me. Most who post on this site are real die hards…and baseball savvy…unlike the saps which +mia so rightfully points out on a regular basis. The Bay Area fans have been so dumbed down over the years…you can pretty much feed them anything…and the Gigantes mgmt has been doing this for years. Like I keep saying…this would not happen in a true baseball town. Neukom is my worst nightmare…a billionaire idiot…with no baseball knowledge…running the show.
B…I do agree with you over 90% of the time…and enjoy your posts.
Well… I never said anything, but you were sure right. I actually enjoyed the hell out of watching him play. You also had me looking at Ishikawa in a little better light. Ishikawa and Torres brought and intensity and focus this year, that was missing from Aaron Airhead, Rentawreck and Mantitsolina.
Do us all a favor and don’t read about the Giants in msm…they’ll just pollute your mind with worse brain garbage than the old Cold-War versions of Pravda or Izvestia
I cannot believe the basic horribleness of the players that Sabean signs. If these guys were to have shown up at a MLB Scouting Bureau tryout back in the day, guys like Rowand, Roberts, Renteria, Molina would never have even made it to the scrimmage round.
Pathetic looking excuses for ballplayers.
+mia,
Agreed.
I try never to read the msm…unless it’s a headline on the net. I cancelled my subscription to the Chron years ago…becuase of Jenkins. It was you who got me watching these guys again…don’t know whether to thank you or shoot you. I have enough vices as it is. Just contributed more to my alcohol consumption. The fact that Rowand and Renteria are starters is baffling…let alone making over 21 mil a year between them. Under conspiracy theory in the dictionary is a picture of Sabean…he will make a believer of anyone who doubts.
It really makes you wonder about the SF Area and it’s fan base…if they continue to buy into this shit…then shit is what you’ll get.
I turned in my season tickets the year they shit on Bonds…and threw him in the bay. This organization sucks big time…and I am the fool to continue to follow them. I get MLB Extra’s…and I have plenty to watch…there is no need to suffer through another year. Listening to Krukow this year was almost as bad as watching Renteria and Rowand. The fucking dude sold out.
Welcome to the major leagues Mr Hobbs.
Yes, we are no doubt the dupes. But this wouldn’t happen in a “real” baseball town?
Are you suggesting that in a real baseball town the fans would take over the franchise
and get a crackerjack management team in there? Or do you mean that in real baseball
towns, good baseball minds coming along can be expected, just like the changing of the
seasons?
We are stuck with the owners and teams we are given and not necessarily with the ones we deserve.
Is LA a “real” baseball town because they have Colletti and Torre or do they have Colletti and
Torre because they are a real baseball town? The concepts are absurd.
I am almost a sick of allusions to “real” baseball towns as I am to the lunatics who are ruining our
local baseball team.
Dan,
If the fans quit showing up to watch crap…you lose money…and ownership is forced to make changes. Get a clue. Professional sports is a business…not a God given right. In a real baseball town the Gigantes would draw less than 1.5 mil a year…and there would not be a Sabean or Baer. And yes… in good sports towns…fans can dictate to ownership what is acceptable. Fans vote with their money. You have a choice where to spend your entertainment dollar…unless you are given corporate seats.
The Twins just won the division with a payroll half of the Gigantes. Think that is luck. They have a great GM and Gardenhire. They continue to outperform the Gigantes almost on a yearly basis. This is not by chance. Good baseball minds do not just come along…you go out and get them. This isn’t the lottery…and the Gigantes have tons of money…which Sabean continues to piss away.
Tell you what Dan…you keep supporting and go along with the flow. You are the fan they want. And by the way…once in a while travel to another town and watch other teams play.
Hate to say it…becuase I hate the place…but LA fans expect more…want more…and get more.
Maybe to you my concepts are absurd…but, I do not tolerate losing in my business…do not tolerate incompetent mangers…and do not tolerate ineptness as a rule.
Sabean’s newsletter was designed for people like you.
Scott,
Glad you are taking my comments in the spirit in which they were given.
I was making reference to the concept of a “real baseball town” and not
at all referring to or endorsing the Giants M.O.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but do you consider Chicago a “real”
basebal town? By your definition, at least the north side would not be. Because
year after year they fill Wrigley field to watch a consistantly wretched outfit.
Your mythical baseball town is filled with people who know the game
and understand what it takes to put a winner on the field. The reality is that a small
percentage of the people who follow the sport are in that category, no matter where
they live. Scott Skiles was talking about another sport but it’s true for ours: ” It’s just
like church, many attend, but few understand.”
Anyway, don’t patronize me with your references to what you tolerate or don’t tolerate. And if I want to go out and watch a Giants game and express my opinion while I’m there and not by voting with my feet, I’m gonna fucking go and enjoy it and
not stay home and pretend I’m the second coming of Henry Ford.
Are you trying to say the fuckwads running the Cubs get a pass from media? And that the fans in that overated tub of nostalgia tolerate ineptitude to the degree the cellphone cud chewing crowd at the AT&T do?
I don’t think so.
Mia,
If it’s an overrated tub of nostalgia, then why the fuck do they keep
going there? No, what I’m trying to say is that Scott and his “real
baseball town” comment is bullshit. People go to baseball games for
many reasons. And there ain’t no fucking evidence that staying home
is going to motivate any owner toward adopting elightened attitudes about
team building.
And while I’m at it Scott, LA is a baseball town? Give me a fucking break.
And thanks for setting the record straight about how many baseball games
you’ve gone to. If it’s been in San Francisco, then you’re dumber than the
schleps you criticise for attending.
You want to know why people keep going to Wrigley? Do you? For the exact same reason the retards keep filling up the AT&T.
Its entertainment primarily. Its a reverse social status. The phone booth has cud-chewing yuppies who sip wine, eat garlic potatoes, and play with their black berries in front of the tv cameras.
In Chicago, they go to the ballpark to sing horrible, irrititating off-key versions of Take Me Out To the Ballgame with limp dick celebrities. They think an oufielder skulling himself on 80 year old bricks is somehow “playing the game the right” way, and that an old obnoxious stupid drunk was somehow endearing.
But thats what I would expect from people who choose to live in a Midwestern sewer pipe with a direct hook up to Lake Michigan in a town run by thugs, punks, crooks, dead voters, and gang bangers.
Tha’ts why people go to Wrigley. It is the lest offensive of the eyesores that is that part of the country.
The bottom line is that San Francisco ballpark patrons are not demanding, discerning nor do they use much discretion when it comes to their baseball viewing habits. But the folks in SFO for years have been led around by their noses by slicksters in media and politicos going all the way back to Emperor Norton.
If you read here regularly, you will know that is something that has been discussed at great length. What Scott is saying is that the morons who patronize the Giants without question, are gullible because they are used to being gullible. It comes from a misguided sense of privilege, which is the niche market that Larry Baer and company have carved out for themselves.
Its a nice business model for a medium sized corporation or partnership, but it does not mean the ballclub put on the field is going to be worth a shit though.
Just sayin’
Dan,
LA is a great baseball town….has been for years. I’ve been to over 500 games @ Chavez Ravine. I hate the Blue Crew…But, they demand more from their organization….and get it. I owned season tickets for over 25 years with the Gigantes…which I gave up for the way they outcast Bonds. I covered the Gigantes as a reporteer from 1974-77…and season ticket holder until 2002. Yeah…there was a time when SF was a Great Baseball Town… you could go to the Stick…and anyone sitting next to you was a loyal die hard knowledgeable fan. Maybe it’s just the times…I suffered through the worst of times in the late 70’s…but, the connection with the fans kept me…not the quality of the team. Sorry to say…that no longer exists. You can insult my intelligence all you want…So, I guess after playing college and minor league ball for 7 years, and attending over 2500 games…I don’t know shit. It’s people like you…who most likely never played the game at a high level…your opinion means little. Now the record is set straight.
You are not worth the time.
Dan,
Whatever dude. You keep attending, maybe you’ll learn a little baseball while your at it. ..and don’t bring religion or spirituality into the mix. I’m sure you’re in the group that doesn’t understand.
I wouldn’t want to waste my time trying to patronize you….since you’re so tolerable.
I’ve attended more games than you’ve even dreamed about going to….and you can vote with your ass and stick your feet in your mouth next time you’re there. ..and Fuck Henry Ford for that matter….There you go Dan…I’ve expressed my opinion.
The transcript of the interview of Sabean and Bochy makes for some revelatory reading.
The first thing that struck me while reading Sabean’s comments verbatim is that he talks like a con artist. It is difficult to imagine him making a living at any trade that involves human contact. Was he raised by grifters? The words and phrases he comes up with resemble those of a sleazy sales pitch.
Secondly, he is either deliberately distorting facts – known measurable recorded facts – or he is completely unfamiliar with readily available information that directly concerns what should be the focus of his job. This is a nice way of saying he is either lying or he doesn’t know what he is talking about. Either way it’s unacceptable and it’s insulting.
Thirdly, he throws Carney Lansford under the bus for the team’s “free swinging” tendencies, conveniently forgetting that four of the five players with the most at bats this year are all over thirty years old with a combined 49 years of professional ball under their belts. How coach-able is a 12 year veteran? Not to mention that he is the one that signed these relics and that their tendencies were documented in painstaking detail throughout their careers. This attempt to shift blame for his failures onto his subordinate is particularly repulsive.
I won’t go into greater detail because you really ought to read it for yourself. A word of warning though, you probably should plan to take a shower afterward.
Robert,
Great post dude…and totally spot on. Sabean is a true grease ball…and a old time grifter at that. They not only threw Lansford under the bus…they backed over him twice. Fucking pathetic.
Pray that Molina continues to have an exaggerated sense of his own worth. The Giants have made a major investment in Posey, so the most they’re likely to give him is one year at not much more than he made this season. If he wants more than one year, he’ll wind up with the Mets.
Had Bengie been batting 7th, his numbers wouldn’t have been as horrible — not wonderful, mind you, but .a 285 OBP with 20 homers from a No. 7 hitter is a lot less damaging than from a No. 4 hitter.
Anybody notice that the only effective stint for Rowand was when he hit leadoff — but after he returned from injury, Bochy was wedded to Velez, who can’t be a corner outfielder.
Winn has to go. Bengie and Aurilia and the Big Unit too. The Garko Gecko might make a cheap platoon partner if you believe Ishakawa can play (I don’t). Rentaria will have a good year because he’ll be healthy and playing for a contract. They have to keep Sanchez to justify the trade.
Lewis is a dreadful outfielder but a useful offensive player. Giants ought to see if they can deal Rowand for someone else’s headache. I might take a run at Carlos Delgado for a year (if I can be sure that he’s healthy)
BTW: As much as you folks complain about the Giants, you should hear the Mets talk in NYC. Lot of fans there PO’d that Minaya and Manuel are coming back.
mets fans are idiots
i would gladly trade sabean and bochy for minaya and manuel
not their fault that the entire team ended up on the dl
and they still played 500 ball with what came from the farm system
i would like to see the giants try that
They actually finished 70-92, and their farm system is barren.
If the choice were Omar/Jerry or Sabes/Bochy, I guess I’d take Omar and Jerry — but not happily
.
Delusional and Incompetent
A Perriconism: Phraseology of the first order describing the absurdisms and incoherent bullshit of Major League Baseball in general, and the San Francisco Baseball Company specifically.
Example:
Something really wrong happened with this organization after the 2002 World Series. This had been a team that challenged pretty much every year from 1993 to 2003 with a couple of inevitable stinker seasons thrown in along the way. Magowan threw a temper tantrum and broke up the roster personnel cabal of Baker and Sabean and instructed Sabean to get rid of Kent and change course
And hence ensued 6 years of complete and utter failure. Six complete seasons of delusional incompetence. Beginning with a disappointing and mismanaged 2004 second-place finish with Crazy Phil, Edgardo Alfonso, and AJ Piershitski and other forgettable and despicable losers and winding up the 2009 season with yet another bottom of the division finish with Bengie the Boob making countless outs in the 4 hole, as the centerpiece of the Giants offense.
How bad was he? Or rather, how adept was he at making outs? Well, lets see now. (scratches through Elias Stats Bureau). Ah yes. Here it is. There were 154 Major League Players who qualified (502 Plate Appearances) for for Individual batting recognition and leadership. Including On Base Percentage. You want to know where Mr. Happy Hands finished? The guy with heart? The guy with the best interests of the team at the constant forefront? How about 153rd place. Next to last. With a .285 OBP. The only fucking guy in Major League Baseball who was worse, was Yuniesky Betancourt, a pile of crap shortstop with a .688 lifetime OPS, bouncing around between Kansas City and Seattle, those other two shining jewel perennial contenders.
Other Bengie Highlights: BB 13 Rank 154 Dead fucking Last. Nobody worse. OPS? .727 Ranked 128. Seven fucking twenty seven for a guy who got offended when he was moved from 4th to 5th in the batting order.
Want to know where Adam Dunn finished? The guy that everybody thought was not a fit for here? The guy who would have cost less than Renteria by half? You know where he finished in all of this shit? Do you?
Well here. Try this shit on for size:
Adam Dunn: OBP .398 Rank 14th BB 114 Rank 2nd OPS .928 Rank 18th
For a little perspective Dunn got on base at a rate almost 40% more than Molina. He drew almost almost 10 times as many BBs and OPSed almost .200 points higher.
Digest this and then ask all the fucking internet wizards and all the fucking know-it-alls at Pier 39 South how Adam Dunn’s 2009 production would have been not only of no value to the Giants, but would have actually hurt their chances to escape the bottom half of the NL West? And than explain to us how you would be able to restrain yourself from unzipping your pants and pissing all over their shoes?
And after six years of delusional incompetence, Mr. Peanut is going to renew the cast of Gilligan’s Island’s contracts. Why? Because according to the explanations of the buttplug apologists in the media and the internet, Mr. Bow-Tie In A High School Jackey needs another year to make friends with other owners while plotting to steal their top employees away.
Now there’s a man with a plan.
Deja Vu All Over Again
And so much for Aaron Rowand’s reprise of Bobby Murcer…the great white hope in the outfield, representing the San Francisco Baseball Company’s attempt to make fans forget Barry Bonds. Which has turned out to be about as successful as Bobby Murcer being used to make fans forget about another troublesome Giants outfielder named Bonds.
As for Murcer v Bonds I and Rowand v Bonds II. From a couple of seasons ago. Well Fuck.
To paraphrase Denny Green: “He is who we thought etc etc etc.” Speaking of Denny, you can catch is new act opening up at PacBell in a couple of weeks in something called the United Way for Football or some such mockery of the NFL. The phone booth is the new home of the latest pretender in pro football. I think the park will be hosting a snake handler revival there the following day. And a flea market the following Wednesday.
Gots to make those stadium debt payments you know.
+mia,
Great call…unfortunately…all too true.
Real Baseball
Tigers at Twins yeterday afternoon and into the night! Superlative. Intensity. Exectuion. Great coaching. Great Bullpen Management. Guys working the count. Pitchers grinding. Fielders diving, throwing, catching. Good baserunning. Team at bats. Not collapsing into childish brooding when calls when against or teammates made a fohpaw. No demonstrative irritiation or baby shit or juvenile premature pointing, clapping or celebrating. The game was too intense for all the silly little arms crossing, sky pointing, chest tapping, hair-styling, sideshows shit that marks San Francisco Giants amatuerism
Heros, villains, goats. Been watching the Giants bring the competition down to their level so much this year, I forgot what a great game MLB can be when played by true professionals and managed by guys who have a plan the players believe in.
Just one more reminder on how lucky the Giant were to have a couple of indentured servants under their control for the time-being in Lincecum, Cain and Sandoval.
Why Cain or Lincecum would even think twice about remaining here to futilely ply their trade in losing effort after no decision is beyond me. When the majority of your starts, no matter how much you dominate, end up with losses or no decisions, and there is no relief in sight, its time to get the fuck out of Dodge and onto a contender.
Yeah. MLB is about money. Lots of it. But when you can get more money, run support, more wins, and a genuine every year chance at a championship, there is no way you pass that up. The money comes and goes. But diamond rings are fucking forever.
+mia,
Great Post. Well said…a keeper. Best game I’ve watched in some time.