I can’t help myself. Every time I read some comment made by Sabean, I feel like I’m listening to a fool:
…. What the folks got was a steady stream of fastballs between 88 and 90 mph – 51 out of his 76 pitches, the rest sliders, cutters and a rare changeup. The Internetsia suggested this was a sign of arm-weariness, as he consistently hit 93-94 in the minors, but Sabean said it was in fact more a matter of San Jose pitching coach Ross Grimsley trying to force a more economical approach on Bumgarner. “He was getting a little fastball-happy,” Sabean said, talking about his reduced velocity, “and we just wanted him to stop trying to strike everyone out.”
Yeah, because that’s a bad thing. What Sabean and Grimsley seem to not know is what Bill James wrote about some fifteen years ago, that strikeouts are the single most important factor in the long term success of a pitcher. That taking outs away from your defense is the single most important way for a pitcher to contribute to preventing runs. We know that the difference between the most efficient defenses in the league and the least is not more than 4%, but the difference between the most efficient pitchers and the least is often a hundred or more strikeouts. But, then again, Bill James also made it clear that having a team full of hitters who take a lot of walks and hit a lot of home runs is the most effective way to score runs, and Brian Sabean and the rest of his crack baseball team don’t seem to know that, either.
Watching that game last night, I was just amazed. Amazed at how mediocre Bumgardner looked. Amazed at the number of Giants hitters who simply swung at every pitch. Amazed at how completely worthless Randy Winn looked at the plate. What does a guy gotta do to get benched on this team? Here’s Molina’s night at the plate; Ball, Strike (swinging), Strike (looking), Ball, Foul, single. Strike (looking), flied out. Strike (foul), Strike (foul), Foul, Ball, Foul, popped out. Ball, Strike (looking), popped out. That’s 18 pitches seen, 5 taken. This is a guy who’s 4 for 22 so far this month, while our superstar rookie catcher sits on the bench with his home runs and walks and batting average.
How about Randy Winn? What does Randy Winn have to do to see the bench? Since the All Star break, Winn has run out a staggering .243/.303/.308 .611 OPS line, and has played all but four games. He has two home runs on the season. He basically gets a single every four at bats, and NOTHING ELSE! How can he still be playing every day? You all know what slugging percentage is, right? It’s the average number of bases you accumulate for each at bat. A .308 slugging percentage is essentially a lead off first base. That’s what Winn is averaging for each plate appearance, a lead off first base. With all due respect to Winn, who seems like a decent enough guy, but that is pitiful. The Giants, who have essentially no hitters anywhere in their entire minor league system, probably have ten hitters who can run, catch the ball, and put up that kind of pitiful production. There are only nine everyday players in the entire league who have worse slugging percentages than Winn. There are only eight everyday players in the entire league who have a worse OPS than Winn. And Winn plays every single day.
But not Fred Lewis. All Fred Lewis did in August was run out an outstanding –OUTSTANDING– .412/.524/.588 1.112 OPS line. Of course, in the Bizarro world of the Giants, one of the best hitters on the team could not fight his way into this lineup. Lewis got five starts in August, a month in which the Giants scored 4 runs a game while going 16-12. A month in which we lost the wild card, by the way.
Oh yeah, he’s a lousy fielder. Yeah, that’s a reason to keep the guy on the bench game after game, because he’s got stone hands. Never mind that Randy Winn’s Battan Death March at the plate has lost so many more games than Lewis ever could with his stone hands. Never mind that the Giants have four of the least effective every day hitters in all of baseball killing rally after rally, losing game after game; and all Fred Lewis does is get hits, hit with power, and draw walks.
AND NEVER MIND THAT WE HAVE SCORED 2 RUNS OR LESS 23 TIMES SINCE THE ALL STAR BREAK WHILE THE ROCKIES HAVE RUN AWAY WITH THE WILD CARD.
I mean, it’s not like you can teach a guy to be a better fielder, right? Because that Lewis sure needs someone to teach him how to be a better outfielder. I wonder where you might find somebody that knows how to do that? Where could you find someone, you know, like, I don’t know, maybe a coach or something, that could teach a young player –who knows how to hit– how to field? Sure seems like I read about something like that once:
…. In 1993, Derek Jeter spent the entire season at Greensboro and made 56 errors. But he hit .295, which showed the Yankees that the fielding woes didn’t cloud the rest of his game.
Good thing he didn’t come up through this Giants regime.
Let’s talk about Renteria. Last season, Emmanuel Burriss was our shortstop, and he didn’t hit enough for Bochy or Sabean. He ran out a dismal .283/.357/.329 .686 OPS line, so bad that by the end of the season, he was not only not playing very much, Sabean went out and spent $18 million dollars to replace him. Now, besides the fact that a 23-year old is a good bet to improve if you just leave him alone and let him play everyday, and besides the fact that that rate of offensive production is actually better than what Randy Winn –playing an offensive position– has produced; it is worth mentioning that Burriss’s horrible hitting, so bad that he was replaced, was actually better than what Renteria has brought to the table.
Renteria has run out a stunning .258/.316/.339 .655 OPS line, a rate of production that is so bad, it got his 23-year old teammate thrown on the garbage heap. Again, looking at Renteria’s line, you can see that he is essentially producing a lead off first base for each plate appearance, which is to say, he is worthless as a hitter. And our estimable GM gave him $18 million dollars to replace a 23-year old, who had nothing but upside in front of him.
These are your San Francisco Giants. An organization run by a man who does not know what makes a player valuable, who does not know how to build a team. An organization that fails to teach its players the fundamentals of success in the game, how to field the ball, how to approach hitting, how to approach the art of pitching. An organization that tells its young strikeout pitchers that they should rely more on their defense, a provably false statement. An organization that allows 25-year old pitchers to throw 125+ pitches game after game. An organization that benches the best young hitter to come out of their system in decades, because they cannot explain to him how to catch the ball, how to position himself so that the outfield isn’t such a scary place. An organization that allows its starting catcher to have so little discipline when he’s at the plate that it appears the team has no coaches at all. An organization that trades one of it top minor league pitching prospects for a first basemen who is older, slower and not one tiny bit better than the young first basemen they are trying to develop. An organization that trades one of its top minor league pitching prospects for an old, injured second baseman, at the exact moment when it has become clear that the insurance policy second baseman they have is actually doing fine.
This is your San Francisco Giants, who inexplicably came into this season thinking they had a chance to contend, and by some miracle, found themselves doing just that; and then failed to maximize the opportunity.
UPDATE: And now the Giants are four games back in the loss column, after being held to 2 runs for the 24th time in their last 66 games.
28 Backtalkers
Wow! All I can add for the time being before off for some meetings is that it is obvious to anybody who can see beyond their inner fanboy, that the House of Sabean has to be demolished. From top to bottom.
And you’ve only touched upon a couple of situations that are right now in front of us. Never mind going back 5 months, or last season and all the inept seasons before.
I cannot overemphasize how bad a job these guys have done. The ownership group of the Giants is the wealthiest in baseball when the assets of the partnership are added together. Almost unlimited. The only limitation is what they self-impose. They have virtually UNLIMITED RESOURCES at their disposal if they wished to do so.
Giants management has a statist-like stranglehold over the commercial media with the exception of a few critical commentators.
The best stadium in the whole fucking world and they own it outright and it sits on one the most expensive pieces of waterfront real estate in the Western World
A fan base that is rivaled only by the Red Sox, Cubs, Cardinals, Yankees and Dodgers for loyalty and ticket sales.
They had all of this. They had all of this plus the greatest player since Babe Ruth for 15 years and the best thing they can do is ride a 25 year old waif into the ground while surrounding him with the biggest collection of overpaid garbage cans since Charles Harney sold his waste disposal site to the City and County of San Francisco for millions and called it Candlestick Park.
If Bowtie Boy can’t see this house of cards collapsing around him now, he never will.
i wouldnt say lewis is their best young hitter, but i have no idea why winn is starting ahead of nate
oh yes i do…because sabean and bochy think its the vets that got us here
OK, I’ll change it to “one of”
that would be better
John,
Good points…especially on Winn. Why he starts is beyond me…no upside what so ever. But being a veteran…with Sabean and Bochy’s thinking…he’ll eventually come around. Next year that is. What Sabean has excelled at is putting a team together of .260 hitters with no power who ae 6-8 in line-up at best. Take that back…role and bench players. We have a roster filled with them. It’s old news to everyone who follows the Gigantes.
I think we have said this many times over the past two years…the main problem is…they make a ton of money. Bay Area fans come out in droves…mostly for the AT&T experience….the game and winning are secondary. Until this changes…the pressure to clean house is minimized. Neukom has recently said this is a rebuilding year…and if you listen to enough of the Bay Area MSM…”we were not expected to win this year”…which makes me feel we will get more of the status quo next year.
+mia has hammered the local media(rightfully so…as saps amongst other things)…and not hard enough as he could be. Sad to say that Krukow has become on of them. I’ve said this before…this would not happen in a real baseball town. Where else would you see a GM walking around dressed as the Skipper on Gilligan’s Island.
Best pitching staff in baseball wasted…these guys will remember 2009 when it comes time to renegotiate. Should I stay…or should I go.
When there is no logic…combined with no accountability…you get what we have here. Bring on the clowns.
Baseballbriefs.com tracking back …. The bad…
Baseballbriefs.com tracking back …. The bad…
John,
While this may sound stupid, I am being serious: HOW can we get through to Neukom? How can we describe the true Sabean to Bill Neukom?
How can this organization not understand such basic principles? It is beyond crushing.
Thanks,
John
One of your better rants, John. Pretty clearly sums up my feelings towards Sabean and his lack of an actual plan to win games. Another fact to add: Randy Winn has the most plate appearances on the Giants. More than Pablo Sandoval. More than Aaron Rowand, who plays a more important position and has an OPS 100 points higher than Winn. More than Lewis, or Schieholtz (obviously). More than Uribe, who’s been giving us a nice season so far. More than Torres, who I think is a garbage player but has quite clearly been better than Randy Winn this year.
Overall not impressed with Bumgarner, I don’t think he’s near being MLB ready at this point. I think his velocity will come back, so that doesn’t concern me (and when it does his k’s will improve), but until he develops another good pitch he needs work in the minors. I do still think he’s a big time prospect, though. You’re right on how ridiculous that Sabean quote is, the #1 focus of our pitchers should be strikeouts, and Bumgarner was doing that extremely well last year while ALSO doing the #2 most important thing – not walking batters.
Everyday lineup should be – Garko/Ishikawa, Uribe, Sanchez, Sandoval, Posey, Lewis, Schieholtz, Rowand. I see no excuse why it should be anything different, other than maybe adding Torres as a platoon corner OF. Completely absurd the way this organization is run, from the top (Sabean) all the way to the bottom (Bochy + minor league managers and coaches).
dont diss the milb manaqers and coaches
4 of our 6 teams made the playoffs
it was milb coaching that fixed pharoh and has fixed probs with most of our rp pitchers (except for hinshaw…i dont get what his prob is)
we have very good teachers in the milb…and they institute a winning attitude in all the players
then they make the bigs and bochy beats it out of them
Can’t say I agree with this at all. Throughout our entire organization, including the minors, it seems there’s no emphasis put on things that matter like walks, plate discipline, and every other aspect of hitting that actually produces runs. I see guys come up that aren’t any better at the things we need than the guys Sabean signs. Just because our minor league system did well this year doesn’t really say much about the job our coaches are doing – rather, the major league talent we bring up from our system speaks more about the job they’re doing, and frankly, lately it’s been better but over Sabean’s tenure it’s been a collection of awful.
[...] Only Baseball Matters should rename itself Fire Brian Sabean. John rants about Brian and the way the Giants seem to be anti-pitcher strikeouts and anti-batter walks: Watching that game last night, I was just amazed. Amazed at how mediocre Bumgardner looked. Amazed [...]
[...] Only Baseball Matters should rename itself Fire Brian Sabean. John rants about Brian and the way the Giants seem to be anti-pitcher strikeouts and anti-batter walks: Watching that game last night, I was just amazed. Amazed at how mediocre Bumgardner looked. Amazed [...]
I don’t know where you get the willpower to keep bringing down this house, but more power to you. I’ve lost hope in any serious reclamation process starting soon and have lost all but .0001% confidence in Sabean.
What’s also horrible to me is the fact that people will look at this season as a building block when it’s really just a house of cards. It’s probably going to be another long season next year….
I can’t speak for John. (not that he needs any help from me in expressing himself)
I saw my first Giants game in Seals Stadium in 1958 when Sabean was still in fucking diapers. I hope to be watching the Giants win pennants when Sabean is back in them.
Look. We talked about a lot of the predicted Giants shortcomings earlier in the year. We were certain that even with a few pleasant surprises like Sandoval, Afeldt and a fire extinguisher for Zito for several weeks, and the emergence of Cain as a pitcher who now pitches with his head instead of his dick, that the Giants were not really going to go anywhere fast. Why?
Because a team is just that. A team. A complete roster. Not 5 starters, 7 guys in the pen and a collection of social security recipients, welfare cheats and ball dudes. Out of shape and over the hill signings. Misused and abused younger players who may or many not have any upside before he and his cronies in the minor league system taught them how to scorn walks, taking pitches, moving runners along, and just hack hack hack like they had a case of tuberculosis. Basically the standard Sabean fare as its been over the last several years.
In 2009 the big contracts are these ass-clowns who are leading the way with a record setting lack of run production, a team OPS of around .700, and the laughingstock of MLB when it comes to fundamental and situational baseball.
Following are the seasons, payroll and starting position players who had/have multi-year contracts and were signed as free-agents or traded for by Brian Sabean
2009: $ 82,616,450
Edgar Renteria, Aaron Rowand, Randy Winn, Dave Roberts, Bengie Molina. With 23 games left to play they have scored the princely sum of 554 runs (14th in the NL) and are OPSing at .699 (good for 15th)
Well what about before this year you ask? We’ll start with 2005, when the current streak of offensive offense really took hold and Sabean decided to go with gritty, savvy, gamers instead of guys like Kent, Guerrero etc.
2005: $ 90,199,500 including these starters plus Barry Bonds for a handful of games.
Mike Matheny, Pedro Feliz, Michael Tucker, Edgardo Alfonso and Omar Vizquel. Team OPS of .714 and scored 649 runs
2006: $ 90,056,419
Key Offensive Starters:
Barry Bonds, Shea Hillenbrand, Mark Sweeney, Steve Finley, Randy Winn, Pedro Feliz, Ray Durham . Team OPS of .746 (13th) and scored 746 runs, good for 11th out of 16 in the National League. (Bonds that year had an OPS of 1.000
Unfortunately the pitching staff that year gave up almost 800 runs (790 to be exact) while Felipe Alou juggled gas cans like Jamey Wright, Matt Morris, Armando Benitez, and Vinnie Chulk in and out of the rotation and bullpen.
2007: $ 90,219,056
Key Offensive Starters
Ryan Klesko, Bengie Molina, Dave Roberts, Barry Bonds, Randy Winn, Ray Durham. Team OPS .708 and 683 runs scored. Rank last in OPS and 15th in Runs Scored.
2008: $ 76,594,500
Key Offensive Starters
Bengie Molina, Rich Aurilia, Aaron Rowand, Randy Winn, Jose Castillo, Omar Vizquel, Ray Durham/Manny Burris, Fred Lewis. Team OPS of .703 (15th) and 640 runs scored (15th)
So Class. To review:
In 2005 the Giants were ranked 29th in Runs Scored and 27th in OPS
In 2006 the Giants were ranked 24th in Runs Scored and 25th in OPS
In 2007 the Giants were ranked 29th in Runs Scored and 30th in OPS
In 2008 the Giants were ranked 29th in Runs Scored and 28th in OPS
In 2009 the Giants were ranked 27th in Runs Scored and 29th in OPS
In 2005 the Giants finished 3rd
In 2006 the Giants finished 3rd
In 2007 the Giants finished 5th
In 2008 the Giants finished 4th
In 2009 the Giants look to finish in 3rd place.
Looking at the Giants offense and their finish in the standings, it looks to me like Sabean has everybody pretty much running in a hamster cage. A lot of effort and other people’s money to go nowhere very slow.
If the Partners can’t see this than there really is nothing left to say.
Amen. I’ll bring this to the front page in the morning.
Shit. I forgot about Moises Alou in 05 and 06…. he was not bad actually. When he wasn’t on the DL that is.
+mia,
Best post of the year…with back up.
In my industry…you’re forced to fire a guy like Sabean or file for BK.
But…they make money…and until winning becomes the primary goal…look for more of the same.
and i wish guys like jenkins would see these arguments, before he starts calling everyone on these blogs, “idiots”
im not going to be upset if the team doesnt make the playoffs
i reamain upset that sabean has wasted millions of dollars on the same type of player for years…and has done no serious rebuilding until this season….and because he hired a manager who hates playing kids, (unless they perform like all stars) even this year of supposed rebuilding has been a joke
im upset, because the only person in the media who saw what was happening and spoke out…was taken out by larry baer (who shouldnt have a job after this season either)
welll…we shall all see what will be
because if this team performs as it has over the past 2 weeks, this coming weekend….the season will be officially over
Ironic comment of the day, from winning Padres pitcher Wade LeBlanc:
LeBlanc, who made his big league debut last year, is a different pitcher this go around.
“It’s not even close,” he said. “I was a totally different guy. Last year I tried to strike everybody out.”
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290909126
I knew it was bad, but not this bad.
So lets say that they score the league average (4.44 runs) in half of those games instead of less than 50% of the league average (2.22 runs).
In half of those games (12 games), 4 runs would have been enough to win. But that would have been cherry picking just those 12 games where the league average would have been enough to win. So as to not cherry pick, lets cut the games won to half of those, or 6 games. 25% of the total. That is 6 games out of the 24 you can move to the win column for discussion sake. That is a 6 game swing.
So instead of 76W-64L, the Giants would be at 82-58. With just league average scoring (4 runs) during half of the games instead of 2 or less.
You know. Something a Jermaine Dye or Adam Dunne or Matt Holliday or even Jason Giambi could have helped them do? Maybe add a couple of runs for 12 games out the 66, and have half of those 12 games become 4-3 wins instead of 3 to 2, 2-1, losses?
That is how little Sabean would have been required to do. So what he got was a broken down second baseman with no power and a utility platoon 1b and proclaimed “We’re In”.
Maybe the wallets of the fans you’re in. But not in any serious contention for a Pennant or World Series.
So the Giants are on pace for ~650 runs. No team has ever made the playoffs (I only checked the wild card era but am pretty sure this will hold for all time) having scored <650 runs.
Only two teams have ever made the playoffs (wild card era) having scored<700 runs. The '05 Padres (684 runs) won the West (82-80 record) and the '05 Astros (693 runs) who won the wild card.
So basically a team needs to be capable of scoring over 700 runs to have any chance of making the playoffs. This team is a million miles from that point right now and I'm not sure I can see when we will ever be close with Sabean at the helm. He must go, but as +mia has so rightly pointed out, why the fuck should the owners care when they are making a tidy profit?
You youngsters! I’ve been watching Giants since Mays, McCovey, Lanier, Davenport and Hart. Growing up, I never attended a game they even WON with my Dad.
They are chronic underachievers…
You’re still alive?
Thanks for stopping by my site, now stop by my house.
Good post John – I don’t see the point of Winn either, nor Renteria. You have these other guys who are, at least, pretty unanimously thought of as plausible prospects – and here we are, again, with players who are nearing the end of their careers. And end of career = no longer replacement value, right? Well, Burriss and Lewis may not be All-Stars, but they’re replacement level, and golly – they might get better. From what I understand, it’s not that Lewis is a bad outfielder, he’s just not skilled – i.e., takes routes 50 feet longer than necessary. He doesn’t seem like he’s not intelligent – bet he would figure that out, or as you say, there just might be a few people still living who can tutor him on how to play the outfield. I understand it’s not a newly created position.
I’ve seen posts on other sites defending Posey sitting – but I don’t agree. Maybe it’s down to some weird Bochy old-catcher complex. But the Giants making the playoffs is, and has been all season, a wish for good luck. On paper, it’s never been likely. So why not let the kid take his knocks now, see what it’s like, find out where he needs to take his game up a notch. God knows he won’t hurt the team at the plate, and with only a couple of weeks left, he’s liable to hit a few 500 feet, Niekro-style. Happens all the time with rookies.
Yes, the trades made zero sense, and Frandsen and Ishikawa got effectively tossed. The Giants have thrown away a lot over the last few years, and I’m quite convinced that Sandoval and how Uribe has played were “accidents” – ironical that if the GM wasn’t so clueless, they probably wouldn’t be on the team.
A lot, a lot, of waste. It’s not a good thing when your GM would have been more effective had he done nothing.
Posey was called up on September 2nd and there was some thought that he might catch Lincicum on the 3rd when the G’s faced Pedro Martinez in Philly what with Molina on the bench with a sore leg. Molina, a lifetime .105 AVG against Martinez, caught the game instead, predictably going 0 for 4 taking his lifetime average versus Martinez to .087.
So far this month Bengie has batted 25 times, had 6 hits, no walks, 3 strikeouts with 3 RBIs and has left 12 men on base. He is sore, no doubt tired, and he is slumping.
Why not let Posey play?
Well, it’s an outrage pure and simple and you guys have nailed it beyond question.
I hate to say it because when your team is in a pennant race it’s so damn much fun,
but the best thing might be for them to seriously tank it in the stretch. There’s an off
chance that way that somebody high up will see through the smoke and mirrors and
make some changes. If they do manage to make the playoffs or get close, there’s no
way. Next year will be a train wreck.
[...] and used him as a pinch hitter, or pinch runner; and hoped nobody would notice their failure. I noticed. And so did [...]