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	<title>Comments on: &#8230;. On second thought</title>
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	<description>Covering the SF Giants since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33448</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33448</guid>
		<description>Jim; keep in mind that this is a person that keeps a cap-wearing bucket in his office.  He really is a nice man. A stand up guy.  He is a good human being. Better than most actually. As a player, he struggled throughout his career. As a result, he knows how hard it is to get to the show and even harder to stay in the show. Every year 1500 guys in organized ball are shown the door.  For Bochy, those relationships are personal as well as professional.  

Bochy is an extremely sentimental guy.  In that regard, he is the anti-Alou.  Too much so.  He really cannot stand to hurt the feelings of those that have been loyal to him or the fellas who are his clubhouse leaders. 

Leadership exhibited by a shift supervisor at an all night fast food joint is one thing.  Leadership in a competitive multi-billion dollar endeavor like Major League Baseball where every move and non-move is examined in public view like the surrender terms of World War II is something else again.

Finding great field managers are difficult tasks. Managers seldom have the final word.  They are charged with enabling stars to perform in an environment that gives the star the best possible exposure, and opportunity for success. Moreover, guys like Bochy and Bob Geren, Bud Black, Eric Wedge, John Russell little say so in who or how those guys are played.  

There just are not that many franchises who can find that perfect combination of cooperation and autonomy that Baker and Magowan had for a while. The kind that Scioscia, Torre, Francona, LaRussa, Leyland have with their front office folks. The excellent combination of logistics, strategy and tactics, and the execution thereof.

Unfortunately, the Giants excel at none of the three.  Perhaps Robert is correct in his assessment of Bill Neukom.  One can only hope at this point. Thus far, new managing general partner, same as the old managing general partner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim; keep in mind that this is a person that keeps a cap-wearing bucket in his office.  He really is a nice man. A stand up guy.  He is a good human being. Better than most actually. As a player, he struggled throughout his career. As a result, he knows how hard it is to get to the show and even harder to stay in the show. Every year 1500 guys in organized ball are shown the door.  For Bochy, those relationships are personal as well as professional.  </p>
<p>Bochy is an extremely sentimental guy.  In that regard, he is the anti-Alou.  Too much so.  He really cannot stand to hurt the feelings of those that have been loyal to him or the fellas who are his clubhouse leaders. </p>
<p>Leadership exhibited by a shift supervisor at an all night fast food joint is one thing.  Leadership in a competitive multi-billion dollar endeavor like Major League Baseball where every move and non-move is examined in public view like the surrender terms of World War II is something else again.</p>
<p>Finding great field managers are difficult tasks. Managers seldom have the final word.  They are charged with enabling stars to perform in an environment that gives the star the best possible exposure, and opportunity for success. Moreover, guys like Bochy and Bob Geren, Bud Black, Eric Wedge, John Russell little say so in who or how those guys are played.  </p>
<p>There just are not that many franchises who can find that perfect combination of cooperation and autonomy that Baker and Magowan had for a while. The kind that Scioscia, Torre, Francona, LaRussa, Leyland have with their front office folks. The excellent combination of logistics, strategy and tactics, and the execution thereof.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the Giants excel at none of the three.  Perhaps Robert is correct in his assessment of Bill Neukom.  One can only hope at this point. Thus far, new managing general partner, same as the old managing general partner.</p>
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		<title>By: scott s</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33447</link>
		<dc:creator>scott s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33447</guid>
		<description>Unc Joe,

The ChiSox just did aquiring Jake Peavy...who might play sometime in Sept...and that&#039;s a big maybe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unc Joe,</p>
<p>The ChiSox just did aquiring Jake Peavy&#8230;who might play sometime in Sept&#8230;and that&#8217;s a big maybe.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33446</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33446</guid>
		<description>I know the BENJIE-MOLINA-IS-NOT-A-CLEANUP-HITTER argument has been done to death, but I find it fascinating that Bochy keeps putting Molina&#039;s 259/270/416 batting line in the cleanup spot. At this point you have to ask: Is Bochy so ignorant that he honestly thinks Molina belongs in the 4-hole, or does he project that Molina will pout if he is moved, and so chooses not to rock the boat? Either explanation is disturbing, because it means our manager is either a dolt or is afraid to stand up to his players...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know the BENJIE-MOLINA-IS-NOT-A-CLEANUP-HITTER argument has been done to death, but I find it fascinating that Bochy keeps putting Molina&#8217;s 259/270/416 batting line in the cleanup spot. At this point you have to ask: Is Bochy so ignorant that he honestly thinks Molina belongs in the 4-hole, or does he project that Molina will pout if he is moved, and so chooses not to rock the boat? Either explanation is disturbing, because it means our manager is either a dolt or is afraid to stand up to his players&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: scott s</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33445</link>
		<dc:creator>scott s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33445</guid>
		<description>Southpaw,

Well said and to the point. I too, would rather nothing be done...than picking up Garko/Sanchez.

Looking at &quot;the Idiot&quot; and listening to him...he appears to be a full blown alcoholic....maybe that would explain the mush for a brain...and his mentality.

Keep beating the Horse. It needs to be front and center every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Southpaw,</p>
<p>Well said and to the point. I too, would rather nothing be done&#8230;than picking up Garko/Sanchez.</p>
<p>Looking at &#8220;the Idiot&#8221; and listening to him&#8230;he appears to be a full blown alcoholic&#8230;.maybe that would explain the mush for a brain&#8230;and his mentality.</p>
<p>Keep beating the Horse. It needs to be front and center every day.</p>
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		<title>By: scott s</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33444</link>
		<dc:creator>scott s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33444</guid>
		<description>+mia,

Still not watching...but, following on the MLB mix channel. Sabean must have the goods on something huge to keep his job...because, I refuse to believe everyone in the FO is that incompetent. Hopefully I&#039;m wrong.

Garko is the second coming of Hillenbrand. I&#039;m tired of hearing waht his stats were in Cleveland...The Jake is hitter friendly and it will take him a month if not longer to adjust to the NL. Typical veteran mentality. I would rather Ish&#039;s glove and .270 bat in there any day...not to mention you are further contributing to his development.

Nice to hear that F Sanchez will be available for pinch hitting duties by Sunday. Real nice.

The joke is on us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+mia,</p>
<p>Still not watching&#8230;but, following on the MLB mix channel. Sabean must have the goods on something huge to keep his job&#8230;because, I refuse to believe everyone in the FO is that incompetent. Hopefully I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
<p>Garko is the second coming of Hillenbrand. I&#8217;m tired of hearing waht his stats were in Cleveland&#8230;The Jake is hitter friendly and it will take him a month if not longer to adjust to the NL. Typical veteran mentality. I would rather Ish&#8217;s glove and .270 bat in there any day&#8230;not to mention you are further contributing to his development.</p>
<p>Nice to hear that F Sanchez will be available for pinch hitting duties by Sunday. Real nice.</p>
<p>The joke is on us.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33443</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33443</guid>
		<description>This is the thrust of Sabean&#039;s failings as a general manager.  It is a significant set of circumstances that can only call into question the Giants veracity when they protest too much that they are serious about pursuing a championship, when presented with evidence to the contrary.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Sabean has failed to acquire that player for going on five years now, and all of his moves are judged, must be judged, against that failing. His job is to put together a team. This team is a table with three legs, and he just went out and painted it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This had been ongoing since 2003. I suspect that Dusty Baker came to a similar conclusion, and finally threw up his hands in frustration inviting a final confrontation with Giants ownership. 

Until proven otherwise, the Giants ownership group seems to lack the stomach and/or management personnel  to compete against the Tom Werner-John Henry Red Sox,  Steinbrenner&#039;s Yankees, Jeffery Loria&#039;s Marlins, Mike Ilitch&#039;s Tigers, Moreno&#039;s Angels, and worst of all, the Dodgers of the MacCourts, and GM Ned Colletti.

Robert, commentator extraordinaire, whose opinions are well articulated seems to be convinced that Orville Redenbacher look alike, Bill Neukom is indeed a man of great gumption, patience, intellect and most importantly, competitiveness.  Neukom&#039;s  public comments, when compared to results or even approach, are more insipid, vacuous, and empty than his predecessor. At least, Peter Magowan had some passion, albeit it measured, when he spoke of Giants matters.

Though Robert&#039;s arguments are persuasive,  I have yet to see this will to win or competitiveness demonstrated. Unless the objective is to lead MLB in attendance or in local popularity polls, or merchandise sales and broadcast media rights, and percentage of asset growth.  This worked for Peter Angelos and Camden Yards for awhile, but now the Orioles are a joke along with the Pirates, Royals, Nationals, and Padres.  But eventually the riff raff is going to catch on.  

While the Giants acquired yet one more in a never-ending string of platoon players and one over the hill 2b d/l candidate for the last 60 games of the season, this is some of what the &quot;serious about competing for a championship&quot; competitors did:

Victor Martinez to Red Sox
1B Casey Kotchman to Red Sox
SP Jake Peavy to White Sox
SP Jarrod Washburn to Tigers
3BScott Rolen to Reds
RP George Sherrill to Dodgers
1B Nick Johnson to Marlins
LF Matt Holliday to Cardinals
2B Mark DeRosa to Cardinals
SS Julio Lugo to Cardinals
SS Jack Wilson to Mariners

And last but not least, Cliff Lee was acquired by the Phillies on Thursday and came within a couple of pubics of no-hitting the useless collection of barely breathing stiffs in vanilla and orange. And this is just in the past couple of weeks that these trades took place.   Every single one of those acquisitions is a bold move with risks attached. There is risk commensurate with reward. 

The Giants under Sabean, take mediocre risks, and garner mediocre results. There is and was absolutely no risk in the Garko-Sanchez deals. No downside and no upside save for the eventual outcomes of two minor league propects.  Sanchez is a 600k buyout after this season.  Garko is a low buck rental too. if he doesn&#039;t pan out and the Giants refuse him arbitration,  just like they did with ALL-STAR CATCHER AND .300 HITTER AJ Piersynski.   

These deals are not an aberration. This is traditional Giants marketing and accounting departments running roughshod over sound baseball considerations.  Prospects who the quiche nibblers could care less about traded away for old,  useless q-rating knuckleheads, and over the hill baseball cards.

And Sabean and the useful idiots in the broadcast media have the absolute fucking stones to blame the pitching staff for last nights loss to the Phillies, totally ignoring the fact that the garbage that Bochy sent out there is averaging about 2.5 runs per game since the All Star break.  That is what you would expect a mediocre AAA team to do. 

Neukom came in and took over a sinking ship.  Standing around the batting cage in a bow tie, is not skillful leadership while your management folks are only allowed/encouraged/mandated to rearrange offensive deck chairs.  And while this continues after five years,  the best young starting tandem in a generation, are tempting the burn-out gods as the Giants are about to embark upon sweltering hot summer swings through the midwest and east coast over the next two months.

But again in Neukom&#039;s favor, he has been steadfast in his refusal to extend the contracts of the dual idiocy of Skull and Crossbones. So all is not lost. Yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the thrust of Sabean&#8217;s failings as a general manager.  It is a significant set of circumstances that can only call into question the Giants veracity when they protest too much that they are serious about pursuing a championship, when presented with evidence to the contrary.</p>
<blockquote><p>Sabean has failed to acquire that player for going on five years now, and all of his moves are judged, must be judged, against that failing. His job is to put together a team. This team is a table with three legs, and he just went out and painted it.</p></blockquote>
<p>This had been ongoing since 2003. I suspect that Dusty Baker came to a similar conclusion, and finally threw up his hands in frustration inviting a final confrontation with Giants ownership. </p>
<p>Until proven otherwise, the Giants ownership group seems to lack the stomach and/or management personnel  to compete against the Tom Werner-John Henry Red Sox,  Steinbrenner&#8217;s Yankees, Jeffery Loria&#8217;s Marlins, Mike Ilitch&#8217;s Tigers, Moreno&#8217;s Angels, and worst of all, the Dodgers of the MacCourts, and GM Ned Colletti.</p>
<p>Robert, commentator extraordinaire, whose opinions are well articulated seems to be convinced that Orville Redenbacher look alike, Bill Neukom is indeed a man of great gumption, patience, intellect and most importantly, competitiveness.  Neukom&#8217;s  public comments, when compared to results or even approach, are more insipid, vacuous, and empty than his predecessor. At least, Peter Magowan had some passion, albeit it measured, when he spoke of Giants matters.</p>
<p>Though Robert&#8217;s arguments are persuasive,  I have yet to see this will to win or competitiveness demonstrated. Unless the objective is to lead MLB in attendance or in local popularity polls, or merchandise sales and broadcast media rights, and percentage of asset growth.  This worked for Peter Angelos and Camden Yards for awhile, but now the Orioles are a joke along with the Pirates, Royals, Nationals, and Padres.  But eventually the riff raff is going to catch on.  </p>
<p>While the Giants acquired yet one more in a never-ending string of platoon players and one over the hill 2b d/l candidate for the last 60 games of the season, this is some of what the &#8220;serious about competing for a championship&#8221; competitors did:</p>
<p>Victor Martinez to Red Sox<br />
1B Casey Kotchman to Red Sox<br />
SP Jake Peavy to White Sox<br />
SP Jarrod Washburn to Tigers<br />
3BScott Rolen to Reds<br />
RP George Sherrill to Dodgers<br />
1B Nick Johnson to Marlins<br />
LF Matt Holliday to Cardinals<br />
2B Mark DeRosa to Cardinals<br />
SS Julio Lugo to Cardinals<br />
SS Jack Wilson to Mariners</p>
<p>And last but not least, Cliff Lee was acquired by the Phillies on Thursday and came within a couple of pubics of no-hitting the useless collection of barely breathing stiffs in vanilla and orange. And this is just in the past couple of weeks that these trades took place.   Every single one of those acquisitions is a bold move with risks attached. There is risk commensurate with reward. </p>
<p>The Giants under Sabean, take mediocre risks, and garner mediocre results. There is and was absolutely no risk in the Garko-Sanchez deals. No downside and no upside save for the eventual outcomes of two minor league propects.  Sanchez is a 600k buyout after this season.  Garko is a low buck rental too. if he doesn&#8217;t pan out and the Giants refuse him arbitration,  just like they did with ALL-STAR CATCHER AND .300 HITTER AJ Piersynski.   </p>
<p>These deals are not an aberration. This is traditional Giants marketing and accounting departments running roughshod over sound baseball considerations.  Prospects who the quiche nibblers could care less about traded away for old,  useless q-rating knuckleheads, and over the hill baseball cards.</p>
<p>And Sabean and the useful idiots in the broadcast media have the absolute fucking stones to blame the pitching staff for last nights loss to the Phillies, totally ignoring the fact that the garbage that Bochy sent out there is averaging about 2.5 runs per game since the All Star break.  That is what you would expect a mediocre AAA team to do. </p>
<p>Neukom came in and took over a sinking ship.  Standing around the batting cage in a bow tie, is not skillful leadership while your management folks are only allowed/encouraged/mandated to rearrange offensive deck chairs.  And while this continues after five years,  the best young starting tandem in a generation, are tempting the burn-out gods as the Giants are about to embark upon sweltering hot summer swings through the midwest and east coast over the next two months.</p>
<p>But again in Neukom&#8217;s favor, he has been steadfast in his refusal to extend the contracts of the dual idiocy of Skull and Crossbones. So all is not lost. Yet.</p>
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		<title>By: scott s</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33442</link>
		<dc:creator>scott s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33442</guid>
		<description>Spot on. Great post.

I think there are many Amen&#039;s in OBM land.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on. Great post.</p>
<p>I think there are many Amen&#8217;s in OBM land.</p>
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		<title>By: scott s</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33441</link>
		<dc:creator>scott s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33441</guid>
		<description>Update.

F. Sanchez unaccounted for.
Garko 1-12.

Taking all bets Garko doesn&#039;t hit .240 or 25 rbi&#039;s. Granted it&#039;s only four games...but, hitting in Pac-Bell is a wake up call.

I know Unc Joe is a Ish fan and most likely hates the Garko deal...and impeding Ish&#039;s development for Garko&#039;s bat offers only downside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update.</p>
<p>F. Sanchez unaccounted for.<br />
Garko 1-12.</p>
<p>Taking all bets Garko doesn&#8217;t hit .240 or 25 rbi&#8217;s. Granted it&#8217;s only four games&#8230;but, hitting in Pac-Bell is a wake up call.</p>
<p>I know Unc Joe is a Ish fan and most likely hates the Garko deal&#8230;and impeding Ish&#8217;s development for Garko&#8217;s bat offers only downside.</p>
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		<title>By: scott s</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33440</link>
		<dc:creator>scott s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33440</guid>
		<description>Toni,

No offense intended. You&#039;re spot on about wasting time with A&#039;s/Gigantes...I try to watch other teams on MLB extra&#039;s during the week. As =mia would say...watching the Gigantes hit is like watching paint dry.

Very few work on Friday&#039;s anymore....so...baseball is a good diversion.

Still cannot stand the Garko deal. Adds nothing to an already inept line-up.

Hope the A&#039;s turn it around...sooner than later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toni,</p>
<p>No offense intended. You&#8217;re spot on about wasting time with A&#8217;s/Gigantes&#8230;I try to watch other teams on MLB extra&#8217;s during the week. As =mia would say&#8230;watching the Gigantes hit is like watching paint dry.</p>
<p>Very few work on Friday&#8217;s anymore&#8230;.so&#8230;baseball is a good diversion.</p>
<p>Still cannot stand the Garko deal. Adds nothing to an already inept line-up.</p>
<p>Hope the A&#8217;s turn it around&#8230;sooner than later.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/31/on-second-thought-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33436</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 04:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1277#comment-33436</guid>
		<description>I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don&#039;t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Susan

http://onlinegamesforgirls.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don&#8217;t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p><a href="http://onlinegamesforgirls.net" rel="nofollow">http://onlinegamesforgirls.net</a></p>
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