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	<title>Comments on: &#8230;. Toot toot</title>
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		<title>By: Only Baseball Matters &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8230;. Worst</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33699</link>
		<dc:creator>Only Baseball Matters &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8230;. Worst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33699</guid>
		<description>[...] a month ago, I wrote pretty much the same thing: &#8230;. the absolutely cruising Rockies, who have managed to win 27 of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a month ago, I wrote pretty much the same thing: &#8230;. the absolutely cruising Rockies, who have managed to win 27 of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: El</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33338</link>
		<dc:creator>El</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33338</guid>
		<description>Paul,

Players who signed contracts or extensions before March 06 and are traded mid-contract can demand a trade in the next off season and become a free agent if not traded. GMs know this, even if the fans don&#039;t.

So Halladay is a 13 start rental and the biggest advantage to giving up the ransom demanded is the ability to negotiate with him before he hits the FA market (which he has said he wants to do in any case).

Garko is a great pick-up.
Ishikawa reminds me of Desi Wilson. 
The horror.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,</p>
<p>Players who signed contracts or extensions before March 06 and are traded mid-contract can demand a trade in the next off season and become a free agent if not traded. GMs know this, even if the fans don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>So Halladay is a 13 start rental and the biggest advantage to giving up the ransom demanded is the ability to negotiate with him before he hits the FA market (which he has said he wants to do in any case).</p>
<p>Garko is a great pick-up.<br />
Ishikawa reminds me of Desi Wilson.<br />
The horror.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron B.</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33334</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33334</guid>
		<description>I hate to use GRM&#039;s point (because he&#039;s already beat it to the ground), but if you take even Renteria&#039;s most pessimistic pre-season projection (.282/.341/.383 from ZiPS, which includes aging and does harsh regression for most players aside from the Pujols and A-Rods of the world) and compare that to the production of the 2008 Giants shortstops (.227/.295/.281), that&#039;s a HUGE upgrade. Even the differences in defense according to UZR (2008 SS were ~+3.0 while Renteria ends up this season ~-2 or -3), the upgrade is still a huge upgrade. Now, that Edgar did worse than even his most pessimistic projection is on me.

I did agree with you regarding trying to get Big Tex or Manny, even though it seemed like neither of them were interested. However, I will never agree with you regarding Dunn, because it doesn&#039;t seem like you&#039;ll ever accept the fact that a run saved is as good as a run earned. He would be an upgrade over Ishikawa, yes, but not a $10 million upgrade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to use GRM&#8217;s point (because he&#8217;s already beat it to the ground), but if you take even Renteria&#8217;s most pessimistic pre-season projection (.282/.341/.383 from ZiPS, which includes aging and does harsh regression for most players aside from the Pujols and A-Rods of the world) and compare that to the production of the 2008 Giants shortstops (.227/.295/.281), that&#8217;s a HUGE upgrade. Even the differences in defense according to UZR (2008 SS were ~+3.0 while Renteria ends up this season ~-2 or -3), the upgrade is still a huge upgrade. Now, that Edgar did worse than even his most pessimistic projection is on me.</p>
<p>I did agree with you regarding trying to get Big Tex or Manny, even though it seemed like neither of them were interested. However, I will never agree with you regarding Dunn, because it doesn&#8217;t seem like you&#8217;ll ever accept the fact that a run saved is as good as a run earned. He would be an upgrade over Ishikawa, yes, but not a $10 million upgrade.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33332</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33332</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying we didn&#039;t need a shortstop.  I&#039;m saying we needed offense far more than we needed a shortstop upgrade.  WE NEEDED OFFENSE!!!!!  WE NEEDED OFFENSE!!!!!

How many different ways do I have to explain it.  

Upgrading --at any position--  is what championship contenders do, not what last place teams do.  Solidifying the fourth spot in the rotation is what championship contenders do.

A team that scored the fewest runs in the league should not be worrying about those kinds of problems.  Thats like painting your living room while your house burns down.

The Giants went into the off-season and did nothing to solve what were solvable problems, and instead, they spent tens of millions of dollars trying to get 5% better at two positions, shortstop and the fourth slot in the rotation; and, I might add, NEITHER SOLUTION HAS WORKED!!!!!!

Instead of spending tens of millions of dollars to improve our fucking offense.

All due respect Aaron, but how can you still be defending these moves?

We needed, and still need, home runs and walks.  Fuck defense, fuck pitching, we&#039;re gonna miss the playoffs, with two stud pitchers --a la the 2001 Diamondbacks-- because we have three outfielders who have combined to hit fewer home runs that the guy we could have signed for a bargain price instead of the corpse we trot out at short every day.  For Chrissakes, Uribe is three times the player Renteria is, and we picked him up at Costco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying we didn&#8217;t need a shortstop.  I&#8217;m saying we needed offense far more than we needed a shortstop upgrade.  WE NEEDED OFFENSE!!!!!  WE NEEDED OFFENSE!!!!!</p>
<p>How many different ways do I have to explain it.  </p>
<p>Upgrading &#8211;at any position&#8211;  is what championship contenders do, not what last place teams do.  Solidifying the fourth spot in the rotation is what championship contenders do.</p>
<p>A team that scored the fewest runs in the league should not be worrying about those kinds of problems.  Thats like painting your living room while your house burns down.</p>
<p>The Giants went into the off-season and did nothing to solve what were solvable problems, and instead, they spent tens of millions of dollars trying to get 5% better at two positions, shortstop and the fourth slot in the rotation; and, I might add, NEITHER SOLUTION HAS WORKED!!!!!!</p>
<p>Instead of spending tens of millions of dollars to improve our fucking offense.</p>
<p>All due respect Aaron, but how can you still be defending these moves?</p>
<p>We needed, and still need, home runs and walks.  Fuck defense, fuck pitching, we&#8217;re gonna miss the playoffs, with two stud pitchers &#8211;a la the 2001 Diamondbacks&#8211; because we have three outfielders who have combined to hit fewer home runs that the guy we could have signed for a bargain price instead of the corpse we trot out at short every day.  For Chrissakes, Uribe is three times the player Renteria is, and we picked him up at Costco.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad T.</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33331</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33331</guid>
		<description>Renteria had a dreadful 2008 with the Tigers (OPS fell from .860 in 2007 to .699 in 2008), so the signs were all right there of his decline.  It was only wishful thinking that he was worth so much money over 2 years.  Forget about his age, he had 13 years and over 8000 plate appearances, 15th among active players (and the only middle infielder besides Jeter).  Hopefully, he&#039;ll rebound next year (he did after a terrible 2001), but it seems unlikely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Renteria had a dreadful 2008 with the Tigers (OPS fell from .860 in 2007 to .699 in 2008), so the signs were all right there of his decline.  It was only wishful thinking that he was worth so much money over 2 years.  Forget about his age, he had 13 years and over 8000 plate appearances, 15th among active players (and the only middle infielder besides Jeter).  Hopefully, he&#8217;ll rebound next year (he did after a terrible 2001), but it seems unlikely.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron B.</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33330</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 01:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33330</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t see how you can say we did not need a shortstop, after what Burriss did this year (which was entirely unsurprising given the way most projections thought he&#039;d do this year).

And the Vernon Wells bit needs to stop. The dude&#039;s got a massive contract, he&#039;s still apparently not even 100% from his injuries last year, and the Giants can&#039;t really afford to carry any more dead weight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t see how you can say we did not need a shortstop, after what Burriss did this year (which was entirely unsurprising given the way most projections thought he&#8217;d do this year).</p>
<p>And the Vernon Wells bit needs to stop. The dude&#8217;s got a massive contract, he&#8217;s still apparently not even 100% from his injuries last year, and the Giants can&#8217;t really afford to carry any more dead weight.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33329</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33329</guid>
		<description>I shoulda picked that up.  Scary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shoulda picked that up.  Scary.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33328</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33328</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Giants GM Brian Sabean and Nats acting GM Mike Rizzo have a strong rapport, so perhaps something will get done.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course they have a strong rapport.  They both have new stadiums and have perfected the art of buck passing. At least Washington ownership finally had the good sense to boot their GM to the curb for being corrupt and inept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Giants GM Brian Sabean and Nats acting GM Mike Rizzo have a strong rapport, so perhaps something will get done.</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course they have a strong rapport.  They both have new stadiums and have perfected the art of buck passing. At least Washington ownership finally had the good sense to boot their GM to the curb for being corrupt and inept.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33327</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33327</guid>
		<description>Heh:

Watched Hampton pitch a couple of innings in Houston the other night.  He IS Barry Zito without a guitar. A waste of a roster spot.  The difference between the Rockies and the Giants is that the Rockies are willing to pay Hampton to sabotage their competition, whereas the Giants will continue to pay Zito to sabotage theirs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh:</p>
<p>Watched Hampton pitch a couple of innings in Houston the other night.  He IS Barry Zito without a guitar. A waste of a roster spot.  The difference between the Rockies and the Giants is that the Rockies are willing to pay Hampton to sabotage their competition, whereas the Giants will continue to pay Zito to sabotage theirs.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2009/07/26/toot-toot/comment-page-1/#comment-33326</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=1252#comment-33326</guid>
		<description>This is not relevant to the current discussion, but I can&#039;t resist. Consider the following comparison:

Mike Hampton&#039;s season stats in 2000, the year before he signed his $100+ million contract with the Rockies:

IP: 217
BB: 99
SO: 151
Wins: 15
Losses: 10

Barry Zito&#039;s season stats in 2006, the year before he signed his $126 million contract with the Giants:  

IP: 221
BB: 99
SO: 151
Wins: 16
Losses: 10

Scary, huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not relevant to the current discussion, but I can&#8217;t resist. Consider the following comparison:</p>
<p>Mike Hampton&#8217;s season stats in 2000, the year before he signed his $100+ million contract with the Rockies:</p>
<p>IP: 217<br />
BB: 99<br />
SO: 151<br />
Wins: 15<br />
Losses: 10</p>
<p>Barry Zito&#8217;s season stats in 2006, the year before he signed his $126 million contract with the Giants:  </p>
<p>IP: 221<br />
BB: 99<br />
SO: 151<br />
Wins: 16<br />
Losses: 10</p>
<p>Scary, huh?</p>
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