87 games into 2009, it is painfully clear that the Edgar Renteria signing, like so many over the past three or four seasons, is a colossal bust.
81 games played, 310 at-bats, 13 doubles, 2 home runs, 38 RBI .252/.307/.313 .620 OPS 28.8 runs created 11 GIDP
He is the worst hitter among all NL shortstops, ranking last or next to last in virtually every one of those categories.
Among the starters at short, he is last in assists, with 192 in 81 games played, and has 8 errors, a testament to both his lack of range and his stone hands. His putouts and double play numbers are also very low, but a good portion of that has to be attributed to the Giants leading the league in strikeouts.
Once again, Brian Sabean looked at this team, and said to himself, we need a shortstop, (we didn’t, but I’ll get to that problem in a moment) and out of the three or four possible guys who were available, got the worst one, the oldest one, and paid him the most money.
Now we need a hitter –two actually, but one is a start– and now, the rumor mill has it that Sabean’s interested in possibly trading for Adam Dunn(!) a move that should instantly get him fired.
How can the Giants ownership trust Sabean to make a trade? I sure don’t.
UPDATE: After today’s loss, the Giants stumble home having gone 4-6 since the break, and having scored just 23 runs in the ten games. Somehow, during this offensive drought, Matt Cain managed to win both of his starts, which is only the difference between a complete collapse and being just a couple of games behind the absolutely cruising Rockies, who have managed to win 27 of their last 36 games.
Looking at what the Rockies are doing, along with the Dodgers maintaining their best record in all of baseball status makes me wonder whether the Giants should bother doing anything. The Rockies are outscoring their opponents by 84 runs over that span of 36 games, which means they are not outperforming their expected wins.
That means they are not going away, and we are nowhere near that kind of performance; which in turn, means that we are not going to be able to hold them off with the addition of one hitter. Which brings me back to Joe Sheehan’s suggestion, and maybe we’d have a chance:
…. What if a team offered the Blue Jays not its very best prospects (for Roy Halladay), but offered it the kind of payroll relief that would pay off for years to come? What if a team took Vernon Wells off of its hands?
Again, Wells would add a little offense, but Halladay would turn our top three into the 1990′s Braves starters, and take away more opposition offense than almost any hitter would add. And all it would cost is a couple of mediocre prospects and money.
UPDATE: Apparently, Brain Sabean is doing his best to avoid looking like an idiot:
…. The Giants, still in the market for offense, have been following the Nats around. Word is, they are checking out OF Josh Willingham and 1B Nick Johnson. Either would help the Giants’ anemic attack.
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[...] a month ago, I wrote pretty much the same thing: …. the absolutely cruising Rockies, who have managed to win 27 of [...]
Renteria had a dreadful 2008 with the Tigers (OPS fell from .860 in 2007 to .699 in 2008), so the signs were all right there of his decline. It was only wishful thinking that he was worth so much money over 2 years. Forget about his age, he had 13 years and over 8000 plate appearances, 15th among active players (and the only middle infielder besides Jeter). Hopefully, he’ll rebound next year (he did after a terrible 2001), but it seems unlikely.
I really don’t see how you can say we did not need a shortstop, after what Burriss did this year (which was entirely unsurprising given the way most projections thought he’d do this year).
And the Vernon Wells bit needs to stop. The dude’s got a massive contract, he’s still apparently not even 100% from his injuries last year, and the Giants can’t really afford to carry any more dead weight.
I’m not saying we didn’t need a shortstop. I’m saying we needed offense far more than we needed a shortstop upgrade. WE NEEDED OFFENSE!!!!! WE NEEDED OFFENSE!!!!!
How many different ways do I have to explain it.
Upgrading –at any position– is what championship contenders do, not what last place teams do. Solidifying the fourth spot in the rotation is what championship contenders do.
A team that scored the fewest runs in the league should not be worrying about those kinds of problems. Thats like painting your living room while your house burns down.
The Giants went into the off-season and did nothing to solve what were solvable problems, and instead, they spent tens of millions of dollars trying to get 5% better at two positions, shortstop and the fourth slot in the rotation; and, I might add, NEITHER SOLUTION HAS WORKED!!!!!!
Instead of spending tens of millions of dollars to improve our fucking offense.
All due respect Aaron, but how can you still be defending these moves?
We needed, and still need, home runs and walks. Fuck defense, fuck pitching, we’re gonna miss the playoffs, with two stud pitchers –a la the 2001 Diamondbacks– because we have three outfielders who have combined to hit fewer home runs that the guy we could have signed for a bargain price instead of the corpse we trot out at short every day. For Chrissakes, Uribe is three times the player Renteria is, and we picked him up at Costco.
I hate to use GRM’s point (because he’s already beat it to the ground), but if you take even Renteria’s most pessimistic pre-season projection (.282/.341/.383 from ZiPS, which includes aging and does harsh regression for most players aside from the Pujols and A-Rods of the world) and compare that to the production of the 2008 Giants shortstops (.227/.295/.281), that’s a HUGE upgrade. Even the differences in defense according to UZR (2008 SS were ~+3.0 while Renteria ends up this season ~-2 or -3), the upgrade is still a huge upgrade. Now, that Edgar did worse than even his most pessimistic projection is on me.
I did agree with you regarding trying to get Big Tex or Manny, even though it seemed like neither of them were interested. However, I will never agree with you regarding Dunn, because it doesn’t seem like you’ll ever accept the fact that a run saved is as good as a run earned. He would be an upgrade over Ishikawa, yes, but not a $10 million upgrade.
Of course they have a strong rapport. They both have new stadiums and have perfected the art of buck passing. At least Washington ownership finally had the good sense to boot their GM to the curb for being corrupt and inept.
This is not relevant to the current discussion, but I can’t resist. Consider the following comparison:
Mike Hampton’s season stats in 2000, the year before he signed his $100+ million contract with the Rockies:
IP: 217
BB: 99
SO: 151
Wins: 15
Losses: 10
Barry Zito’s season stats in 2006, the year before he signed his $126 million contract with the Giants:
IP: 221
BB: 99
SO: 151
Wins: 16
Losses: 10
Scary, huh?
Heh:
Watched Hampton pitch a couple of innings in Houston the other night. He IS Barry Zito without a guitar. A waste of a roster spot. The difference between the Rockies and the Giants is that the Rockies are willing to pay Hampton to sabotage their competition, whereas the Giants will continue to pay Zito to sabotage theirs.
I shoulda picked that up. Scary.
Well, not surprisingly Brian Sabean hasn’t even given it serious consideration:
From the San Jose Merc:
So the Giants needed a leftfielder and a second baseman since before last season began. Maybe the Giants should have spent some of the money they’ve wasted on Sabean, Bochy and they’re Shane Company collection of MLB free agent cosume jewelery on Walt Jocketty, Tony LaRussa Mark DeRosa and now Matt Holliday. The Cards gave up a touted AAA 3basmean and a couple of other prospects for Holliday. The Indians got a 4.94 ERA middle reliever named Chris Perez for second baseman Mark DeRosa of the 807 OPS and 17 HRs, all of which would lead every single worthless bat that Sabean has added to this roster in free agency and trades this year and last year and the year before that and the year before that!.
All one could or should expect of a player is for that player to prepare for each each pitch and each ball in play as if it was his last, and to pay fucking attention for 9 uninterrupted innings. And for the most part, the Giants players have delivered this effort as well as the best in the league.
The problem is not lack of effort nor dedication. The problem is they are not very good. And they never ever under any set of circumstances save a miracle promulgated by Jesus and his 12 homeboys, could have reasonably be expected to be other than what they are ….. overpriced free agent flotsam and un-talented, inexperienced bush league jetsam. On any given night, you can EXPECT at least half the lineup to ring up OBAs of .000. I don’t care how much Sandoval hits or Bonds before him walked. That is a prescription for failure as the recent road trip illustrated. Here’s a couple of numbers for us thrown out by Krukow after yesterday’s embarrassment at the hands of the Rockies.
The Rockies in the three game series drew 17 walks. The Giants drew 1. On the 3-7 road trip against a losing team, a .500 team and a team they were leading before this roadtrip, the Giants gave up 10 homeruns, hit one, and averaged 2.3 runs per game.
He also made a point that all the Sabean sycophants overlook. Without run support, the Giants pitching will fold like a cheap tent as the season goes along. It is delusional to think that Lincecum, Cain and Afeldt can continue to withstand the constant onslaught of opponents bats with zero room for error. It will not continue. It cannot. Sabean’s ineptness was hidden by Bonds excellence and now he is hiding his boondoggle trades and free agent signings behind the unsustainable winning performances of Cain and Lincecum.
There is no reliable rotation other than these two. As predicted, the Randy Johnson signing has resulted in his trip to the DL shortly after win number 300. So he disappears into the Arizona desert several weeks ago, and because of the nature of his contract, the Giants can’t even speculate on his condition. In other words, he was who John thought he was: An old fart looking for a millions to win the 5 games to get him to 300 and Cooperstown. And as a result of contracts like this that Sabean continues to negotiate, the idiots continue to get fleeced $100.00 for what should be $55.00 seats.
The only thing promising coming out of this front office mess so far, is the continued refusal of Orville Redenbacher to grant contract extensions to either Sabean or Bochy.
What kind of a farm system puts out nothing but left handed hitting position players in a ballpark that kills lefties not named Barry Bonds. Lewis, Bowker, Shierholtz, Ishikawa, Burris? I don’t get it. While the conventional wisdom wants to rub themselves silly over Single A prospects, this team has produced nothing but promises, speculation, and bullshit about “next year” forever.
+mia,
Spot on. Best analysis of Gigantes(w/o rant) all year. Could not have said it better.
Sabean is gone…just a matter of months now.
And all Halladay would cost is a couple of mediocre prospects and money.
Doc has discretion on where he goes due to his no trade clause and reportedly wants a team going to the playoffs. The Giants probably wouldn’t be high on his list.
And, again, he can demand his new team trade him after this season and if they don’t, he declares himself a free agent.
The Jays want the Phillies best pitching prospect, their #1 outfield prospect, and 7 – 1 J. Happ.
No way will (or should) SF give up Posey and MadBum for 13 Halladay starts.
The team would have him under contract for next season as well, so you’re getting more value than just 13 starts if you do trade for him now. That said, it’s going to take way more than “mediocre prospects and money” to get him. The Jays are asking for major league ready talent, apparently. If the Giants are only offering Nick Noonan, why would the Jays even waste their time? They’d be better off with the two draft picks after Halladay leaves for free agency.
Paul,
Players who signed contracts or extensions before March 06 and are traded mid-contract can demand a trade in the next off season and become a free agent if not traded. GMs know this, even if the fans don’t.
So Halladay is a 13 start rental and the biggest advantage to giving up the ransom demanded is the ability to negotiate with him before he hits the FA market (which he has said he wants to do in any case).
Garko is a great pick-up.
Ishikawa reminds me of Desi Wilson.
The horror.
John,
Why can’t you let this brain dead idea die? Vernon Wells would add nothing to the Giants as we already have five outfielders that have produced at a higher WAR level then Vernon has. According to Fangraphs Vernon Wells has been worth minus (yes MINUS) one win thus far in 2009 while Aaron Rowand, Randy Winn, Andres Torres, Nate Schierholtz, and Fred Lewis have been worth 1.9, 1.6, 1.0, 0.6, and 0.6 wins respectively.
http://www.fangraphs.com/myteam.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=n&type=6&season=2009&month=0&u=7161
Yes, getting Roy Halladay is worth alot but there is just no way in hell he is worth $132.67M for the remainder of 2009 and 2010. This is how much money the Giants would be obligated to pay for both Halladay ($20.5M) and Wells ($112.17M thru 2014). Taking on this financial obligation would cripple the Giants ability to add needed players after 2010 when Halladay’s current contract expires and make it viturally impossible for the Giants to afford to resign Matt Cain and to pay four the final three years Tim Lincecum is arbitration eligable .
I just can not understand how you can continue to fail to see just how dumb this idea is.
The Giants are not going to get Halladay unless they give up one of their top-shelf pitching prospects. All reports say the Blue Jays are asking for a king’s ransom for him. “Mediocre prospects and money” won’t cut it, even with Wells in the deal.
Here you are dead wrong. The Blue Jays would pee in there pants with joy if the Giants were stupid enough to make this offer.
I read in SF Gate that Sabean didn’t even inquire about Holliday, which I found sort of surprising, unless he didn’t want to deal with Billy Beane or didn’t think he could resign him in the off-season. But a few other players the Giants could go after could be Victor Martinez of the Indians, maybe a smaller deal for Josh Willingham involving prospects + cash since the Nats surely could use some to sign Stratsburg.
If Sabean truly is interested in Dunn now, he should be fired. Or at least have a really good reason that he didn’t pursue him in the off season.
Yeah, the really good reason he didn’t pursue him on the off-season is because Sabean doesn’t have any fucking idea how to place a value on players.
We needed one thing this off-season, offense, in particular, walks and home runs. That’s essentially all Dunn does, and he was, without question, the best possible player –other than Texeira, who would never have come here, according to the best writers at the Chron– the team could have gone after.
Instead, the Idiot went after a shortstop who was thrown away by his former team, a player whose best years were five years ago, a player who played a position we already had filled, a player who nobody else was looking to sign; and he signed him for an absurd contract that was at least four times what anyone else would have offered him. A contract that would have easily landed Adam Dunn in orange and black.
As I wrote way back when, how hard would it have been to offer Dunn a couple of extra dollars and had him spend the off-season working at first base with JT Snow? All it would have taken is imagination and planning and foresight, all atributes that Brian Sabean lacks.