The Giants beat the hapless Washington Nationals yesterday 11-7, behind Randy Johnson. The Big Unit won his 298th game, and the offense took advantage of a massive number of walks to score a season-high 11 runs. The win pushed the team's record to 17-14, and I have to say I'm surprised.
I'd also have to say that this run isn't sustainable. You can't win more than half your games when you allow more runs than you score (128-120), and when you score the fewest number of runs in the entire baseball world. With just 120 runs scored in their first 31 games, the Giants have been the beneficiary of close to perfect timing, serendipity if you like. They've won two games by a score of 1-0, two games by a score of 2-0, and several others by just one or two runs. The odds of this continuing throughout the season are long, indeed.
During the pregame show, John Shea reports that Adam Dunn, said that the Giants never called this past off-season. Dunn, who landed a two-year deal worth $20 million –or just slightly more than Edgar Renteria got from Sabean– said that he would have had no problem playing at PacBell:
…. “This place doesn't scare me. You can definitely find better places to hit if that's what you're looking for. As far as home run-wise, I wouldn't (not) go someplace because the park's too big. If I hit it, it's going to go.”
Dunn is second in the NL with 11 home runs and 28 runs batted in. The Giants, as a team, have hit just 16 home runs. So, to reiterate, the team lied when they told us they weren't pursuing Dunn because they knew he wasn't interested in playing at PacBell.
The truth is that Sabean thinks it's fine to have a mediocre bat at first base –a premiere offensive position that the team has failed to fill adequately since Will Clark– because Sabean thinks defensive whiz first basemen save 100 runs a season, and Sabean thinks that veterans with track records –or as they're more commonly known, washed up players– are more valuable than young, power-hitting players who know how to get on base.
So, with the $9 million were giving to Renteria this year, in 108 at-bats our shortstop has scored 18 runs, banged out 5 doubles, 2 home runs, and a .258/.328/.358 .687 OPS line this season. Last season, in 124 at-bats at short, Emmanuel Burriss scored 19 runs, banged out 5 doubles, 1 triple and 1 home run, and ran out a .306/.382/.387 .768 OPS line. This season, Burriss has struggled a bit, but still has managed to post an OPS of .632, just a hair below Edgar.
How have the Nationals done with the $10 million they're paying Dunn for 2009? He's scored 19 runs, banged out 4 doubles, 11 home runs, and run out a .318/.457/.655 1.112 OPS line. Yeah, why would the Giants need a player like that?
UPDATE: Lots of great stuff in the backtalk, but I can't help but wondering what the optimists are looking at when they continue to suggest that the Dodgers can be had. The Dodgers are leading the NL in runs scored and runs allowed. I
don't care how much you hate them, they are playing phenomenal baseball right now. Did you see that play Kemp made last night, scoring from second on a bunt to the third baseman? When was the last time a Giant made a play like that?
ESPN's expected wins calculator shows that the Dodgers are 23-12 and they should be 24-11. The Giants are 18-15 and should be 15-18. Sure, our pitching matches up well with them, but we're at the bottom on offense and they're at the top, averaging a full run and a half more per game. They are the best team in the entire league right now, and even with Manny gone for a third of the season, they will still be better than the Giants by a substantial margin.
And, not for nothing, but I cannot believe how many people have taken the time to point out all of Dunn's shortcomings. His positives so far outweigh his negatives as to make your arguments laughable to the point of absurdity. He's a 28-year old who's hit 40 home runs and drawn well over 100 walks FIVE YEARS IN A ROW!! And all you guys want to talk about is how he isn't a great defender? Are you fucking kidding somebody? Make a point that matters, for Chrissakes, instead of sitting here telling me we have no room on our team for a player who will hit more home runs than our whole fucking team.
FIRST BASE IS AN OFFENSIVE POSITION
The top teams in the league get elite production from first base. Ranking all of the teams in both leagues by total bases by first basemen is startling. The Giants have 31 total bases from first base, Tampa Bay is number one, with 88. The average team gets 65 total bases from the position. This is the highest average of any position, and this holds true for virtually every offensive category. The Giants are the only team in the league that considers defense an important attribute for a first baseman. Every other team puts their best hitter there, and hopes for the best.
That is what championship teams do, by the way, since we know that the Giants strategy hasn't produced a championship in my lifetime.
Here's what a real GM of the worst offense in baseball would have done, during an off-season in which a guy who'd hit 40 home runs five years in a row was basically siting at home with his hat in his hands; call him up, and say, hey Adam, we'll do the extra year that no one else will, say, 3 years for $33 million, and all we ask of you is to spend the off-season working out with JT Snow, because we need you to play first base.
How hard would that have been? It would have taken something more than just throwing the most money in the ground, like Sabean did with Zito, outbidding the rest of baseball by $25 million. It would have taken leadership and imagination and, sure, some risk. But we've got an up and coming pitching staff that needs some runs, and signing a declining Edgar Renteria for top dollar right out of the box was thoughtless, full of just as much, if not more risk, and wasteful. And, by the way, worthless. The Giants had the worst offense in baseball last year with Burriss at short, and now we have the worst offense in baseball with Renteria at short, with $18 million dollars less to go after a real hitter.
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On a happy note.
Fred Lewis went way deep on a cripple pitch from Hernandez. He managed to not fly open for once. He kept his front shoulder in and locked his front hip ala Bonds. He’s a strong guy and his heretofore Ichiro type of swing (slicing balls to the opposite field) without being able to cover the inside has him striking out so much. Hope he has found something here.
Affeldt and Molina kicked ass after Timmy and Valdez shit the bed in t7. The two of them just dealt in getting those K’s and Molina calling for and blocking that nastyass shit in the dirt to get Reyes and the others. Awesome display. That alone was worth paying to see.
So much for that. Because:
In every other department, the Giants were clearly exposed. Bad managing. Bad defense. Horrible situational hitting. Bad pitching. Bad baserunning. The Mets not only took advantage of Giants mistakes, they forced them into mistake after mistake after mistake; in the field, making them flail at horrible pitches, throwing the ball around the field, and transforming the basepaths into the Olympic Games Time Trials.
The Mets had the lead off runner on every inning and exposed the Giants total lack of coaching when it comes to holding on quality, well-prepared-with-a-game-plan, base runners from legitimate teams. Righetti has to be held accountable for this. Enough of his “…they just have to figure a way to grind it out” excuses. Like every other jamoke in management, the guy refuses to accept responsibility for any damn thing, that I am aware of.
If I’m him, I’m sucking down hemlock and offering to turn in my resignation over the complete lack of professionalism displayed by my pitchers (with the exception of Jeremy Affeldt) in the last two games–including Lincecum.
Basically they play like 1989 Giants did against the A’s in the World Series. A complete, utter and total mismatch. Who the hell is running this team? John York and Mike Nolan? Pathetic.
+mia,
The Gigantes are looking more like a AAA club. The inability to hold runners is a joke….and this is just the beginning. The whole league will run them into oblivion…until they stop it.
Great points about Lewis and Affeldt. Affeldt has a nasty curve…one of the best I’ve seen….and Lewis is due to bust out. He will learn to turn on a ball…and hopefully you’re right in that he’s figured something out.
Rags bringing in Wilson last night was wrong. You cannot burn him up and hand him the ball six games a week…especially in non-save situations. Somebody had to be fresh and available. I question the pitching moves more than Bochy’s usual blunders…and this fall directly on Rags.
I will say it over and over…Rowand must sit or be dealt. He brings little to the table. He leads the team in runners left on….and cannot drive the ball anymore. The book on him is that he cannot hit a slider…and that’s all he’s going to see from now on. We’ll be lucky to get .230/10/50 out of him.
Better stop the bleeding soon…Saturday is a must win….against Santana no less.
At this point, I’m only interested in Lincecum, Cain and Sandoval. And watching the lunacy of the game last night about did me in. Bochy is a terrible manager. Only the Giants would continue to employ (extend no less) those running this mess of a team. On a positive note: the Giants aren’t the Astros.
B,+mia,Aaron,Unc Joe:
It is painfully obvious we need a power presence in the line-up. Who and where that is available is anyones guess…and at what cost. We have more players with zero hrs…than with hrs. w/o Molina we only have 11….34 game in. Pathetic.
Would like to know from B who he thinks is hurting us more than Rowand & Zito…except maybe Aurilia eating up a s roster spot.
Hopefully something is done soon…while we still are within striking.
Whoever’s on first (Ishikawa or Aurilia), Winn so far – though he should turn it around at least somewhat, Burriss, Sanchez – though he’s too talented not to improve on his results so far, even Randy Johnson overall has been a lot worse than Zito – hopefully moving forward he has more good starts than bad ones. Hard to imagine his HR’s allowed will stay at the rate it’s at. That said, none of them have the long term contracts of Rowand/Zito, so at worst we can replace them next year.
Have not a clue. The Giants really don’t have any spare pitching to trade. They are already dipping into the minors for middle relief help after only 34 games.
Thats why a free agent bat in the offseason was paramount. Maybe they were hoping (again) that Lowry would have provided them with the option to trade an arm for a bat.
I really don’t do junior GM very well and tend to shy away from speculating on specific transaction proposals. I just don’t have the time to follow all the scouting reports and or real world feasibility of said trades.
I generally try to reserve my opinions based on personal observations, and some basic statistical analysis to confirm or refute said observations and opinions.
Except whe something is so obviously stupid or contrary to common baseball sense of course
For a little perspective on the Giants front office – the Yankees just signed Brett Tomko.
Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Cody Ransom, Brett Tomko. Can Edgardo Alfonso be far behind?
seriously?
they are ripe for a trade
i like sanchez…but i like better the fact that he can bring over a bat…which the yanks have a plethora of
of course, they would want a prospect or two also…and i dont trust sabean in that regard
“But we’ve got an up and coming pitching staff that needs some runs, and signing a declining Edgar Renteria for top dollar right out of the box was thoughtless”
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I cannot emphasize enough how much of negative it is for a young pitcher when you know that you have to be perfect to win. Not just good. BUT PERFECT! It forces guys to nibble and run up their pitch counts higher than neccessary.
Lack of hitting has a more negative influence on pitching, than bad pitching does on individual hitting.
And I predict, that unless this changes, the pitching is going to fall off dramatically.
It is the most oppressive of situations.
+mia,
Totally agree. If things do not change…it will take its toll. We need to get “early runs”.
Exactly the point. And thats what makes the folks who would have taken a pass on Dunn’s 900+OPS and 40 homers per year so willfully stupid.
Its the same kind of attitude that the Aesop’s fox had when he couldn’t reach the grapes. The fox was building for the future! Yeah. Thats the ticket.
+mia,
I’ve never tried to argue your points…your normally spot on…with enough documentation to support your statements. Just do not think Dunn would’ve been good for the Gigantes…regardless of who is telling the truth. One of the few occasions I had to agree with a Sabean non-move.
We need a 1b…no doubt. If only Bonds would be willing to wear a cup. Just for a year.
My Line-up would be(batting order) with our current roster.
Burriss 2b
Winn CF
Lewis LF
Sandoval 3b
Molina C
Schierholz RF
Renteria SS
Ishikawa 1b
I think you play Ishikawa daily until he plays himself out of the majors…because he will be little use off the bench. Again, this is what I would do with the current situation.
“willfully stupid” is a bit harsh when considering we’re talking about Adam Dunn. Wherever he goes…teams lose. The Reds are drastically better w/o him…and he did little to help the D-Bags in their stretch run last year. In fact…he killed them.
Again, Just my opinions…and I could be wrong.
Must go brush up on my Aesop’s Fable.
“Wherever he goes…teams lose. The Reds are drastically better w/o him…and he did little to help the D-Bags in their stretch run last year. In fact…he killed them.”
I can see some logic in not wanting Dunn. He’s an absolute butcher in the field, and he more than any other player in MLB would be hurt by AT&T. But to say teams lose wherever he goes is just unfair. It isn’t his fault he played for the Reds for his whole career and they were a poorly run franchise then, and it isn’t his fault the young kids in the D-backs org sucked. He still had a .417 OBP and .472 SLG in his time on the D-backs, after all. The Reds are better because they now have some talent, now just because Dunn is gone.
Considering he would have to play 1B for the Giants (there’s no way he could play OF at AT&T), and it’s a less demanding position defensively, I think it’s reasonable to assume he would hurt the Giants less defensively than in the past when he was in the OF. He has a career 131 OPS+, and even if that went down because of AT&T, you’d still have a player at least 20-25% better than league average (based on OPS which undervalues Dunn’s OBP). We could definitely use that hitter. I think there’s certainly room for both sides of the argument of whether he’d be a good move for the Giants at 2yrs/$20 mil, but I don’t think you can argue against the fact that the 2009 Giants would be better right now with Adam Dunn at 1B. Based on fangraphs numbers, Dunn is on pace to put up ~4 wins above replacement this year, while Ishikawa is on pace to put up ~ -1.
B,
Okay…I was a bit unfair. Blaming Dunn for a teams win/loss record is wrong. My point is ….Dunn can hurt a team more than he can help it. Who really knows how much difference he would make if he was on the Gigantes. He may not get pitched to. Dunn needs to be a DH in the AL. If we’re just talking about $$ for offensive production…then Dunn @ 8 mil a yr is a steal.
The Reds have pretty much the same team(add Willie Taveras) as they did at the end of last year. They play a much different style w/o Dunn. I watch the Reds almost daily…being the Dusty fan that I am….and that’s one of my points. Dunns power comes at a severe cost. I agree that it would have been better to spend money on Dunn than Renteria and Uribe…and that’s what +mia has been saying all along.
I’ve been saying for over two years…that we need to resolve 1b…maybe Dunn would’ve been the answer. No doubt we could use a hitter with Dunns power. I’m just tired of the free reign that Rowand gets. In my mind…he is the biggest liability…and not too many people comment on it.
So far, the second worst free-agent signing in Giants history.
I’m really not against your view, really. Dunn definitely should be a DH, and if you want to give Ishikawa a chance to see what he can do, as long as we’re “rebuilding” (and by that I mean really not good enough to make the playoffs), I can at least see that viewpoint. Rowand and Zito are the biggest marks against Sabean – they’re both KILLING us right now. Zito has even been pitching better but his contract is so ridiculous we’re screwed for years. I think there are other players hurting us at least as bad, or even worse than Zito or Rowand…but the killer is how much more money we’re on the hook for both of them. That said…this is still a much more entertaining team than they’ve been since about 2004 or so. I just wish Sanchez could get it together so we could trade him for a bat, already…
mia
i never expected this team to play above 500 ball
and no…the records are much different
because the squad in 05 had nowhere to go but down…..and out
they were old….tired….and not very fun to watch
lets take a look at that roster….shall we?
# Pitchers Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth
59 Jeremy Accardo 6-02 190 Right Right 1981-12-18
49 Armando Benitez 6-04 180 Right Right 1972-11-03
38 Jim Brower 6-02 205 Right Right 1972-12-29
43 Matt Cain 6-03 230 Right Right 1984-10-01
40 Jason Christiansen 6-05 230 Left Right 1969-09-21
52 Brian Cooper 6-01 185 Right Right 1974-08-19
53 Kevin Correia 6-03 200 Right Right 1980-08-24
47 Scott Eyre 6-01 160 Left Left 1972-05-30
14 Jeff Fassero 6-01 195 Left Left 1963-01-05
34 Jesse Foppert 6-06 210 Right Right 1980-07-10
32 LaTroy Hawkins 6-05 195 Right Right 1972-12-21
41 Brad Hennessey 6-02 185 Right Right 1980-02-07
48 Matt Herges 6-00 200 Right Left 1970-04-01
38 Matt Kinney 6-05 220 Right Right 1976-12-16
33 Al Levine 6-03 180 Right Left 1968-05-22
51 Noah Lowry 6-02 190 Left Right 1980-10-10
54 Scott Munter 6-06 240 Right Right 1980-03-07
38 Brandon Puffer 6-03 190 Right Right 1975-10-05
46 Kirk Rueter 6-03 195 Left Left 1970-12-01
29 Jason Schmidt 6-05 185 Right Right 1973-01-29
37 Jack Taschner 6-03 205 Left Left 1978-04-21
50, 35 Brett Tomko 6-04 215 Right Right 1973-04-07
45 Tyler Walker 6-03 250 Right Right 1976-05-15
57 Jerome Williams 6-03 180 Right Right 1981-12-04
holy fuck….the pitching staff was bad….cain came up at the end of the season, so he really doesnt count….but look at that staff…christ
now…lets take a look at the every day players
# Catchers Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth
8 Yamid Haad 6-02 204 Right Right 1977-09-02
33 Justin Knoedler 6-02 210 Right Right 1980-07-17
22 Mike Matheny 6-03 205 Right Right 1970-09-22
8 Yorvit Torrealba 5-11 190 Right Right 1978-07-19
well, we all know what happened to matheny….look at the backups….except for torri, i believe the rest are currently moving pianos
now the infield
# Infielders Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth
12 Edgardo Alfonzo 5-11 185 Right Right 1973-08-11
1 Angel Chavez 6-01 195 Right Right 1981-07-22
35 Deivi Cruz 6-00 184 Right Right 1972-11-06
2 Brian Dallimore 6-01 185 Right Right 1973-11-15
5 Ray Durham 5-08 170 Right Both 1971-11-30
7 Pedro Feliz 6-01 180 Right Right 1975-04-27
36, 28 Lance Niekro 6-03 210 Right Right 1979-01-29
6 J.T. Snow 6-02 202 Left Left 1968-02-26
13 Omar Vizquel 5-09 165 Right Both 1967-04-24
thank god for omar…i love that guy
and now…the scary of
# Outfielders Height Weight Throws Bats Date Of Birth
18 Moises Alou 6-03 190 Right Right 1966-07-03
25 Barry Bonds 6-02 228 Left Left 1964-07-24
56, 21 Jason Ellison 5-10 180 Right Right 1978-04-04
9 Marquis Grissom 5-11 190 Right Right 1967-04-17
39 Todd Linden 6-02 215 Right Both 1980-06-30
34 Daniel Ortmeier 6-04 215 Left Both 1981-05-11
57 Julio Ramirez 5-11 170 Right Right 1977-08-10
21 Alex Sanchez 5-10 180 Left Left 1976-08-26
1 Adam Shabala 6-01 190 Right Left 1978-02-06
21 Tony Torcato 6-01 195 Right Left 1979-10-25
20 Michael Tucker 6-02 185 Right Left 1971-06-25
2 Randy Winn 6-02 193 Right Both 1974-06-09
so you seriously want to compare what is on the field now with what we had then?
i didnt enjoy watching the 05 team
as much as i have a prob with the sabean and pumpkinhead, i do enjoy watching the current squad (although i would love to see either winn or rowand get traded so that nate can play)
the team is younger and has much more of an upside
the pitching, while not where i want it to be, is alot more solid
burriss is starting to hit (although it seems that this team has a curse on the leadoff spot) pablo is getting his eye back….ti might just carry on his hitting, etc
the idea that a team needs power to win is something that was embedded in fans psyche during the juicing days
why cant small ball work?
again…look at the 05 squad and tell me how the team is exactly where it was back then
Tell me how 17-14 is so much different than 16-15? Which is what I was saying. The 2005.01 version OPSed at .714 and ranked 27th in MLB. This year’s version is OPSing at .697 and ranked 29th. As for pitching? For the year, in 05, OPS against was ranked 17th at .748. This year OPS against is .750 ranked 16th. So the pitching is a little better this year, the hitting is a little worse. But pretty much, the same old results.
Over matched by quality teams.
—————————————————————————-
I still don’t see where you can refute this. Their records are the similar and their on field performance is similar. .
Appreciate the detailed roster analysis though.
I usually just lurk here and I enjoy your stuff +mia. Since you brought up the ’05 squad here is the other difference. As of 5/11/05 the ’05 team had won 4 series, lost 7 and tied 1 (4-7-1). If you want to include the series that ended 5/14/05 they were 4-7-2 in series. Looking at the ’05 victories they were twice against the Rockies (who lost 95 games that year), 1 vs the Padres, and 1 against the Pirates (another 95 loss team). The ’09 squad is 7-2-2 in series play going into 5/11/09. If you want to move the cut off date to 5/14/09 it ’09 squad is 8-2-2. No one is saying the ’09 Squad is dominating but series totals show a much more constant (in good way) ’09 squad.
I don’t dispute your assertion on series wins. But at the same time, a team with no hitting, is more capable of huge losing streaks than it is winning streaks. Yeah, they can win most of their series. But the quality teams that have hitting are going to put together winning streaks of 4 games here, 5 games there and rest their pitching staffs when they come up against weak hitting teams like the Giants. I don’t seriously look for the current roster to be able to maintain this current little run of series wins. The runs scored, runs allowed, OPS and OPS against, just indicate otherwise
In other words, you have to be balanced. And the Giants have not and are not anywhere near being a balanced team. Neither was the 05 team.
As I said, the methodology is different, but the end results are the same. Of course the 2005 team’s season is in the books, and the 09 team could somehow be successful. But at the time, I came across almost exactly the same kind of optimism, in 2005 that we have now. Actually,because 2002,03, and 04 were still large in the rear view mirror and the Giants had not had a losing season since 1996, the pure putridity of the team was not apparent to most folks. Including moi, sad to say.
We’ll all have a better feel for the substance of this team at the end of July.
+mia,
Maybe watching Bonds in 05 made the team seem better. I found the 05 team less boring…but, you also had Benitez…and that my friend says it all. Our pitching this year…makes it no contest.
Just my opinion…and I could be wrong.
LOL. That was the year Bonds mostly missed due to knee surgery/infection. He played 14 games towards the end and crashed the first pitch he saw off the centerfield wall in his comeback in mid-September. The Giants made a nice little run at the end after picking up Winn at the end of July from the Mariners in exchange for Yorvit Torrealba and Jesse Foppert.
There was a 7 or 8 game losing streak towards the end of May that lasted until the first week of June, which while in the midst of, Peter Magowan thought it would be a splendid idea to extend Senor Snooze’s contract another year. They than proceeded to play .500 ball for almost 4 months right on up until the last few games of the season when they were eliminated from contention and Alou started playing the rest of the scrubinis.
I see a team with good pitching (not average but good) and poor Offense is far less likely to have prolonged losing streaks then the good “O” but poor pitching.
Need an example look at this year’s Nat’s. They can clubber the stuffing out of the ball but what good does it do them in a series? Sure they produce far easier to watch loses than loses this Giants team create but the Nat’s are much farther away from putting themselves in a position to contend in the next handful of years.
I don’t argue this team balance because it is not balanced. Nor do I think we have manager that can make the most effective use of unbalanced team. To me the ’09 Giants are just a bit ahead of where I thought they would be. I thought they would finish a couple games under 500. Their defense has done better than I thought at this point. If no changes are made (or a break out does not happens) this squad should hang around 500 all year.
Now if we want to compare ‘O5 Giants to an ’09 NL West this year’s Dodgers have the most of similarities with them.
Unc Joe,
Nice work. Must of time on your hands today. I agree…evn though we had Bonds in 05…this team is far better. Can you say Armando Benitez. Just Wilson alone almost makes us better. I see +mia points…you will always be able to dig up stats to support statements. I normally agree with +mia…but not on this one. We are far better this year…but maybe tougher to watch.
I will say it again…Rowand is a bigger liability than Renteria…and he seems to fly under the radar when people are taking their shots on the Gigantes. We need to keep Winn…he brings far more to the table than Rowand…but Winn has far better trade value…since I cannot fathom anyone wanting Rowand.
We’ll see how we stack up against the Mets.
Don’t knock Joe! (j/k) I want to see more of his stuff. PITHY! comes to mind. I actually wish he posted more. And this is the first post of his that I can personally recall where he goes into such detail.
He’s actually one of my favorites. It is cool when he has the time to elaborate.
As for me, we can agree to disagree on which team is worse/better. That will be determined by the end of September with no input required from any of us.
Here’s to hoping you and the uncle are correct and i’m wrong. I’m pretty sick of the Mudville residence anyway and the sooner we can move out the better.
+mia,
Not knocking Joe…sorry it came across that way. I’ve always liked his wit…and I admire the fan in him. I’m sure we probably crossed paths at the stick on many occasions. Just that Unc Joe is usually a man of few words…usually good ones. Cannot rip on anyone that has a little Irish in them…and goes by Unc Joe. Wouldn’t mind knocking a few back with him.
By the way…I was being sarcastic about watching Bonds in 05. What is the same about 05 as this year…is that the NL West is again the worst division in all of baseball.
I do agree that this team is hard to watch…unless you are a student of pitching. But…I like the fact that this team is learning to win…and Burriss is improving with each game. Schierholz is hitless since he has been given a chance to start. Go figure. But…he needs to play. Winn should be our CF…not Rowand.
If you want to talk about a GM and organization with their heads up the ass…take a good look at the D-bags. Blame Melvin for a bunch of hitless wonders…Fire him and his coaches…Bring in a bunch of inexperienced young guys…and think that this POS team will somehow now produce. Now 1-6 w/o him.
Trust me…there are a lot of worse teams and organizations out there. I’ve said on many occasions that I have serious disdain for Sabean and his signings…but give him credit…our farm system is deep with talent….we have guys that are not far from helping the big club.
We are far ahead of where I ever expected this team to be….and Zito pitched another quality start. He looked good yesterday against a quality line-up. Ssy waht you want about the Nats…but they can rake the ball. They are the size of football players.
I agree that time will tell…but, it can be done this year.
Bring on the Mets.
Sorry…1-5 after Melvin firing. They got booed out of the joint last night.
Before you call the NL West the worst division in baseball, you should look across the Bay to the teams in the AL West.
B,
You may be right, I may have jumped the gun. The AL West sucks too. Just think that Texas and Seattle are better than the Pads and the D-bags. I’ve been saying for over a month that the D-bags are the worst team I’ve seen this year…even with Haren.
Not just trying to be a fan here…but, the Gigantes will most likely finish with a better record than the Yanks.
these may seem like conflicting statements, but –
The NL West is awful – I’m far from convinced that with or without Manny the Dodgers are any better than anyone else. Whatever club (not the Pads) happens to get lucky this year will win it. Could well be the Giants.
The other is that I see no point in having signed Renteria or potentially having signed Dunn. Or Rowand. I’m really tired of having guys who have a couple of good years left at most out there – “Burriss should be at shortstop” – well, yeah, and Frandsen at second. The argument that Renteria may or may not be “better” than Burriss is pretty moot. If the NL West was a better division, the Giants wouldn’t have a chance in hell, so why not see if people can play – Shierholtz is just gathering dust. The team might be good in a couple of years, why not see who can play now?
It’s just tiresome… you sign vets, you get what you get. How many years now has that been the plan? One should be able to look around the diamond and hope for upside, not know what the deal is before the season starts, especially when the deal is a .500 team. I’m quite sure that Sandoval wouldn’t even be at third if there was a $10 million “name” free agent out there. It’s pathetic.
Anyway, I agree – the keys really are Sanchez and Lewis. Both need to get straightened out – especially Sanchez, the team has ridden the bullpen WAY too much. Johnson is fun to have, so I don’t care – but trotting the same guys out there every night is going to very quickly take its toll. And Lewis – aren’t there such things as hitting coaches? I’ve often wondered if the Giants have any coaches at all.
Anybody care to start laying odds on Sabean making it to 2010?
Marc,
Exactly my sentiments. The NL Worst can be had. Lewis is still learning to play outfield…and in my mind…has only upside. It is no secret on this site that Rowand is my #1 peav. He is an average outfielder, .250 hitter at best, with below average power and speed. Tired of hearing he was injured all last year…when his performace this year(healthy) is acutually worse. He is a bigger problem than Renteria. I agree that Burriss is our SS of the future…and should be there now. Like you, I feel Frandsen should be given a chance to play his way out of the line-up. 1b needs to be resolved. Cannot platoon TI and Aurilia and expect production. This is where we need to find power.
Unfortunately we are stuck with Rowand. Dealing him is almost impossible…I cannot forsee any takers. We will be lucky to get 10 hrs/50 rbi’s from him this year. Renteria is actually performing far better than expected. I hope he continues to prove me wrong.
We’re all tired of the signing of tired old vets…who were graciously saved from the moth-ball fleet by Sabean. Just his mentality.
+mia is correct on having a major stick in our line-up…becuase the Gigantes line-up is a relief to battered pens and staffs.
I believe a couple moves are on the horizon…and even though Aurilia should be the first to go…it will be TI. Look for Guzman to be called up…which will not solve the power outage….just another shuffle of the deck chairs.
I still believe this year it can be done….because between parity, and playing in the worst division in baseball…make it all possible.
This team is right about where it was in 2005 when they were 16-15.
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no mia, they are not
that team had a middling rotation, a bad pen, and an old infield and outfield
this team isnt where they should be…but to compare them to the 05 team is just not fair
and dunn has never hit at the belle…..NEVER
Agreed. This team is far better than 05…pitching alone. Something still needs to be done about the set-up…Howry is not the man for the job. Maybe Valdez can find his control.
Like I keep saying…the West can be had now. The Dodgers are on the verge of emploding…and with each loss AM(After Manny), the questions will multiply…and the pressure will mount. Say what you want about Manny…but like Bonds…he makes everyone around him that much better. The Dodgers are a .500 club w/o him.
Like I keep saying…this Gigantes team is growing on me…they are learning how to win…and winning the games they should. Look for Pablo to go on a tear. Last nights game may help this team turn the corner. We’ll see how we stack up against the Mets.
Just Win Baby.
STAY HOT.
Tell me how 17-14 is so much different than 16-15? Which is what I was saying. The 2005.01 version OPSed at .714 and ranked 27th in MLB. This year’s version is OPSing at .697 and ranked 29th. As for pitching? For the year, in 05, OPS against was ranked 17th at .748. This year OPS against is .750 ranked 16th. So the pitching is a little better this year, the hitting is a little worse. But pretty much, the same old results.
Over matched by quality teams.
Look. Those are not all encompassing obviously. But lets not get carried away by 2 games over. 500 in the 2nd week of May. Its still the same old song. No matter how hard we want things to be good, sometimes they just aren’t. Quality teams are capable of putting together extended winning streaks. The difference between sweeping a 3 game series and 2 out of three is two games in the standings. The Giants longest winning streak in the last 5 seasons is what? Four? Five? Thats brutal. Little league teams do better. If you can’t hit, you cannot put together extended streaks as a rule. The Giants on defense are a little above average. On offense, they are very bad.
As for Dunn? Your right. He hasn’t hit at PacBell all that well in the 110 plus Plate appearances there. He hasn’t hit all that well against the Giants elsewhere either, though not as bad. Even if his ops dropped by 100 points and he dropped 10 HRs per year, he would still have given the Giants a guy in his 20s and given them 30 homeruns, and OPS around .900 and a PRESENCE IN THE LINEUP THAT HAS BEEN MISSING since Bonds was cut loose. And I’ll take Dunn at his word over some mouthpiece or their apologists who refuse to accept any accountability for Giants failures, and shortfalls.
Right now the Giants are a welcome relief to battered bullpens and pitching staffs throughout the league.
If at the end of July the Giants are 3-4 games out and actually have some hitters that can hit, and guys like Zito, Sanchez, and Johnson, can stop chewing up the bullpen with 5 and 6 inning starts, than maybe there is actually something to be optimistic about. So far, everything is wishful thinking.
Just What Else Would Dunn Say When Asked This Question?
He is going to be a free agent again in two years why would he dish a potential bidder that might drive up the price even if he didn’t what to play there? Why would he admitt to any concerns about hitting at AT&T Park when he is about to play three games at AT&T Park?
This is much to do about nothing and does not at all change my mind that Adam Dunn had (and has) no interest in playing here. He proved again today that the size of RF takes much of his power away. Last Year he hit 3 bombs to RCF that Randy Winn tracked down for outs. Today he hit another that Schierholtz should of caught but he let the wall get to him and the ball glance of his glove for a lucky double.
I am still very glade when didn’t waste any effort trying to sign Adam Dunn.
Just 3 games out baby! Pitching, Defense, and just enough Hitting is fine by me.
Could Dunn play shortstop?
John,
Good to see you back on the Gigantes. Enough of the roids. I think most agree that there were better signings out there than Uribe and Renteria. I am not sure Dunn would have been the fix at 1b. Sure…he would be a plus on the power…but, his defense may have negated anything he did at the plate. Dunn gets to see good pitches because he’s on the Nats…maybe not if he’s on the Gigantes…or any other club.
I do not know if you get a chance to watch around the league much…but, most teams pitching and defense is sub-par. I am not a Sabean fan…and like +mia, I completely despise the Gigantes upper mgmt and ownership. Totally a marketing platform oriented group. Winning is secondary. But, give this team credit…they’re playing decent ball…and in the worst division in all of baseball. I’ve been saying all along, that the wild card is attainable…and w/o Manny…the West can be had. I agree…we need to resolve 1b…once and for all. For a couple years at the Stick…JT put up some good power stats while at 1b…and just became a head case and totally intimidated by the wall at Pac Bell. So, for a while…we did have a decent replacement for “The Thrill”.
If Pitching and Defense dominate baseball…then this team can continue its run. What does surprise me this year…is how many bad teams are out there. With MLB Extra’s…I get a good opportunity to see all teams…and the Gigantes are far better off than most clubs. I find the Gigantes style a bit boring and lethargic…but, they are continuing to get better…and Burriss has made the necessary adjustments…and Winn is back. I think we have finally found a lead-off batter in Burriss. I prefer not to bash and get negative for a while…let this team figure out its identity and chemistry. They may not hit much…but, they play hard…and they are learning how to win….winiing ugly…is still a win. Just need to get Schierholz in the line-up.
Maybe it’s just the fan in me…but this team can get it done.
Stay hot.
I’m surprised too, so the sentimental fan side of me rolls with it, and enjoys it. Just a few random thoughts from last night.
Sandoval is really athletic. He is also really fat. People look at him and see a decent player and up and coming ballplayer, and really fun player to watch. Heloves to play. And he is baseball smart, with really quick hands and even quicker feet. He is unafraid and never tight.
But I look at him and see a kid, that as good as he is now, and as good as he is going to get going forward, a kid who is never going to reach his maximum potential or have any sort of longevity because of all the extra body mass that saps strength and stamina.
They need to send Fred Lewis down to take the huge loop out his swing. He’s tried backing off the plate, in an attempt to adjust to inside gas or hard sliders at his back foot, but thats just a band aid, and not an effective one. Bonds said of Lewis that he had the potential to be “another me” at the plate. I don’t know if I go that far, but I think if they can compact his swing a little bit (try choking up a couple of inches with a longer bat for instance) he will come around pretty quickly. He’s going to have to. He’s 28 and even though he was late coming to the table, I have a notion that if he does not break out soon, he never will…the mental and emotional drain will be too much, and he’ll be cast aside. The Giants have a plethora of mediocre outfielders anyway, so give him a month in the minors to get it figured out and plug in Shierholtz in the interim.
I’m with John on the Dunn matter. Good reporting to MSM for digging this out by the way. Of course Sabean lied. He’s part of the group think that I keep pounding on. The Giants are about accounting, marketing, and than winning in that order.
There are a few players on this team whose presence (not as persons) I really despise, in order: Zito. Rowand. Renteria. Aurillia. Velez. Uribe. Ishikawa. No elaboration needed. JOhnson’s presence for this one year does not bother me, as there was/is no legitimate guy in the organization any better right now. He is really creaky right now and between him and Sanchez, the bullpen is getting chewed up pretty quickly. Good for Zito for pulling his ass out and actually contributing to the team effort for the last couple of weeks.
A lineup with Dunn and Hudson instead of Ishikawa and Renteria would have made the Giants a legitimate Big League offense instead of the sham that it is now. Whether it was doable or not, nobody knows for sure except that we know the front office continually tries to pass off their shortcomings onto everybody else except themselves. Again, this is in keeping with the Giants policy of non-accountability for those in management.
Burris should have been the shortstop all along. He still should be. He is smart, unafraid, quick, fast, strong and really likeable and a total team oriented type of individual. Also, while he has gotten some cheesy on bases from the left side, his swing is more of a tennis backhand than a legit baseball swing. Like JT Snow, he would probably benefit from just hitting from his natural right-handed side of the plate.
The Nationals hitters right now are scary good at the top of the order. Zimmerman, Johnson, Guzman, Dunn. Because of a zillion walks in the 5th inning following Willingham’s misjudgment of Fred Lewis’ lazy fly ball, they trailed the Giants 11-4 going into the 9th. They ended up losing 11-7 and forced the use of three pitchers with 2 outs at the end; Matos, Medders before forcing Buckethead to go to Brian Wilson (following a two inning job in extra innings the day before) with the tying run on deck to finally close the door.
Thats the thing. With real hitters in the lineup, its never over til its over. Even with guys like Daniel Cabrera and Logan Kensing walking the yard. With no hitters in the lineup, its over early and often if your pitchers aren’t perfect.
The fan in me had fun. But I still see the same shortcomings exposed. Again. This team is right about where it was in 2005 when they were 16-15. I try to enjoy this team, but the presence of so many detestable contracts on this team makes it hard. Its like rooting for Edsels.
+mia,
All good points. Good to see there’s a little fan still left in you. Do not punish the child for the parents sins…meaning…it’s ok to despise the ownership and clowns in the front office…without taking it completely out on the team.
Sad to see that Lewis cannot catch up to a MLB fastball…and seems only able to hit a hanger.
By the way…there were a couple good Edsels on the road….not many…but a few….and we’re playing in a division filled with Vega’s,Pinto’s, and Gremlins.
Lewis is out of options though, so he’d have to clear through waivers first (which wouldn’t happen, btw).
I don’t know why he looks so uncomfortable at the plate this year. It actually makes me really sad that he’s pressing so much, but I’m just hoping he turns it around sometime soon…
I wish I knew too Aaron. He’s not really popular right now with many folks because of his perceived struggles in the outfield and his “would be funny if not so sad” unbelievable number of strikeouts. The thing is, Lewis for all the perception that he is a butcher in left field, has made only 2 errors, and has a fairly high zone rating compared to other starting left fielders for whatever it is worth.
If its any comfort, George Foster got called up in 1969 and had to stay at it for 6 years before his break out season at the age of 26 in 1975. And until that season he was averaging a little under a strikeout per game.
McCovey was only a part time player for 4 seasons. In order to accommodate the even worse fielding Cepeda, the Giants converted him to left field, in order to get his bat into the lineup. He was charged with 14 errors that year (1963) And that with having Willie Mays next to him in centerfield, not Destruction Derby Rowand.
Good piece. Ok, fine, I’ll admit it, we should have gone hard after Dunn instead of Renteria. I was wrong in my assumption that Dunn wasn’t interested. For all Brian Sabean’s “tire kicking”, how did Dunn’s tires escape?
Fangraphs has some of the better publicly available statistics that try to value a players offense and defense combined – so far this year Dunn has added 9.2 total runs above replacement level compared to .8 for Renteria.
One caveat: Dunn has mostly played in the outfield, and the numbers are positionally adjusted, so if he was playing 1B for us every game they would be different, but it’s unclear whether his numbers would be better or worse, and how much.