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	<title>Comments on: &#8230;. Money money money&#8230; MONEY!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/</link>
	<description>Covering the SF Giants since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Jay T.</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32255</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32255</guid>
		<description>Can we please no longer refer to Barry Zito as a Cy Young winner?  I know he actually won a Cy Young award, but referring to him in that way now is kind of insulting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we please no longer refer to Barry Zito as a Cy Young winner?  I know he actually won a Cy Young award, but referring to him in that way now is kind of insulting.</p>
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		<title>By: marc</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32246</link>
		<dc:creator>marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32246</guid>
		<description>Uh, Mia, you specifically said which guys. Did you forget already? Did you forget that you made four points, which were discussed? Kinda silly to insult yourself, really. Though you seem to be doing that all on your own. Guess you don&#039;t know too much about baseball except a bunch of swear words and whining. You&#039;re kinda nuts, you know.

Hope the Giants suck forever so you&#039;ll have a way to spend your time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, Mia, you specifically said which guys. Did you forget already? Did you forget that you made four points, which were discussed? Kinda silly to insult yourself, really. Though you seem to be doing that all on your own. Guess you don&#8217;t know too much about baseball except a bunch of swear words and whining. You&#8217;re kinda nuts, you know.</p>
<p>Hope the Giants suck forever so you&#8217;ll have a way to spend your time.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32245</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32245</guid>
		<description>Yup. 3 Cy Youngs Sanchez and Lowry.  Great OFFENSIVE IMPACT PLAYERS.

50 million for Titantic deck chairs. Which is what those 4 guys amount to. And the fact that you didn&#039;t realize it was those guys specifically tells me you you&#039;re probably exactly the individual I am referring to.

Anybody who suggests Fred Lewis is currently MVP material is uhm...probably trying to peddle tickets or contributions to the Brian Sabean deferred compensation plan

And the marketing the ballpark experience has produced how many winners in San Diego, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. 3 Cy Youngs Sanchez and Lowry.  Great OFFENSIVE IMPACT PLAYERS.</p>
<p>50 million for Titantic deck chairs. Which is what those 4 guys amount to. And the fact that you didn&#8217;t realize it was those guys specifically tells me you you&#8217;re probably exactly the individual I am referring to.</p>
<p>Anybody who suggests Fred Lewis is currently MVP material is uhm&#8230;probably trying to peddle tickets or contributions to the Brian Sabean deferred compensation plan</p>
<p>And the marketing the ballpark experience has produced how many winners in San Diego, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh?</p>
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		<title>By: marc</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32244</link>
		<dc:creator>marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32244</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll spell it real slow for those who think they are all sophisticated because they can say &quot;trollops&quot;:

1) A baseball team interested in making money? And the money comes from fans? Who would&#039;ve ever guessed! This must be a new development... can&#039;t date back to more than 1876.

2) $50 million/4 players = $12.5 million a year. Can&#039;t possibly be right - ballplayers don&#039;t make that kind of money.

3) yeah, life is rough... only three Cy Young award winners and a prospective fourth in the rotation. Plus Sanchez. And maybe Lowry. The horrors.

4) I dunno - Randy Winn&#039;s worked out pretty well, Bengie&#039;s been better than anyone would have expected, Lewis is surrounded by &quot;future MVP&quot; talk, just retired HOF shortstop and left fielder, middle infielder with incredible speed that there isn&#039;t really even a roster spot for....

So, I guess if we can&#039;t rely on stats, 4 gazillion blogs, and being fans... guess we should all just be Yankee rooters (different than trollops, if we must be euphemistic). They buy the world series every year! Just like the Mets! Oh... wait....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll spell it real slow for those who think they are all sophisticated because they can say &#8220;trollops&#8221;:</p>
<p>1) A baseball team interested in making money? And the money comes from fans? Who would&#8217;ve ever guessed! This must be a new development&#8230; can&#8217;t date back to more than 1876.</p>
<p>2) $50 million/4 players = $12.5 million a year. Can&#8217;t possibly be right &#8211; ballplayers don&#8217;t make that kind of money.</p>
<p>3) yeah, life is rough&#8230; only three Cy Young award winners and a prospective fourth in the rotation. Plus Sanchez. And maybe Lowry. The horrors.</p>
<p>4) I dunno &#8211; Randy Winn&#8217;s worked out pretty well, Bengie&#8217;s been better than anyone would have expected, Lewis is surrounded by &#8220;future MVP&#8221; talk, just retired HOF shortstop and left fielder, middle infielder with incredible speed that there isn&#8217;t really even a roster spot for&#8230;.</p>
<p>So, I guess if we can&#8217;t rely on stats, 4 gazillion blogs, and being fans&#8230; guess we should all just be Yankee rooters (different than trollops, if we must be euphemistic). They buy the world series every year! Just like the Mets! Oh&#8230; wait&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay T.</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32241</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 21:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32241</guid>
		<description>If we can just sign Manny this team would suddenly become very interesting... just FUCKING DO IT.  I don&#039;t care what kind of shit he pulled in Boston - we&#039;re used to putting up with all sorts of crap, and it&#039;s better than losing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we can just sign Manny this team would suddenly become very interesting&#8230; just FUCKING DO IT.  I don&#8217;t care what kind of shit he pulled in Boston &#8211; we&#8217;re used to putting up with all sorts of crap, and it&#8217;s better than losing.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32236</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 18:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32236</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what I&#039;m talking about.

In 2006 his first full year around the league Cain went 13-12. In 2007, Cain was credited with 7 wins and 16 losses after the rest of MLB had a book on him. Ten of those losses were by 2 runs or less.  Last year Cain won something like 8 games and got dinged with 14 losses.  In 11 of the 14 lossess the margin was 2 runs or less.  In the last two years, he has lost 30 games, 21 of them by two runs or less.  That is what I mean when I say &quot;giving up one more run than his teammates score. 

Now nobody I know of, including me is advocating that w-l record be the primary measurement tool of judging an individual pitcher&#039;s ability or predicting future results.  What I am saying however, is that at some point, a starter has to &quot;own&quot; his losses as well as his wins.  He has to be able to make certain pitches at certain times in certain situations to certain batters, if his team is to win.  It is that simple.  That is what shows up in a won loss record. It is not going to show up elsewhere, unless you actually witness these games. And of Cains 104 career starts, I have probably seen 90 of them.  And what I am saying is that since the league knows his tendencies in certain situations, they sit on certain pitches in those situations. 

For example, good hitters know he&#039;ll try to force his fastball on certain days, even though he doesn&#039;t have much command of it, and take it for a ball. Or the same thing with his curve and/or change.  The experienced hitters around the league know he gets stubborn with certain pitches or tries too hard for a strikeout.  They use that to wait him out, force him to get behind in the count or groove his no.2 or no. 3 pitch. 

Now that doesn&#039;t happen all the time, and Cain is not unique in this.  All I am saying is that he is still in the potential category, not a sure thing, and that at some point (he has 104 career starts even though he is still only 24) he has to be held accountable for a significant portion of his won loss record.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what I&#8217;m talking about.</p>
<p>In 2006 his first full year around the league Cain went 13-12. In 2007, Cain was credited with 7 wins and 16 losses after the rest of MLB had a book on him. Ten of those losses were by 2 runs or less.  Last year Cain won something like 8 games and got dinged with 14 losses.  In 11 of the 14 lossess the margin was 2 runs or less.  In the last two years, he has lost 30 games, 21 of them by two runs or less.  That is what I mean when I say &#8220;giving up one more run than his teammates score. </p>
<p>Now nobody I know of, including me is advocating that w-l record be the primary measurement tool of judging an individual pitcher&#8217;s ability or predicting future results.  What I am saying however, is that at some point, a starter has to &#8220;own&#8221; his losses as well as his wins.  He has to be able to make certain pitches at certain times in certain situations to certain batters, if his team is to win.  It is that simple.  That is what shows up in a won loss record. It is not going to show up elsewhere, unless you actually witness these games. And of Cains 104 career starts, I have probably seen 90 of them.  And what I am saying is that since the league knows his tendencies in certain situations, they sit on certain pitches in those situations. </p>
<p>For example, good hitters know he&#8217;ll try to force his fastball on certain days, even though he doesn&#8217;t have much command of it, and take it for a ball. Or the same thing with his curve and/or change.  The experienced hitters around the league know he gets stubborn with certain pitches or tries too hard for a strikeout.  They use that to wait him out, force him to get behind in the count or groove his no.2 or no. 3 pitch. </p>
<p>Now that doesn&#8217;t happen all the time, and Cain is not unique in this.  All I am saying is that he is still in the potential category, not a sure thing, and that at some point (he has 104 career starts even though he is still only 24) he has to be held accountable for a significant portion of his won loss record.</p>
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		<title>By: +mia</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32235</link>
		<dc:creator>+mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32235</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll spell it real slow for the trollops whose knowledge of baseball is limited to Topps, Fleers, Giants press releases, internet and the math club.

1.  Larry Baer:  &quot;THE GIANTS ARE ABOUT PROVIDING THEIR FANS WITH A BALLPARK EXPERIENCE&quot;  not &quot;The Giants are about providing their fans with championship baseball&quot;

2.  Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand, Randy Johnson, Edgar Renteria.  Just under $50 million per year.

3.  Not a single impact offensive player, other than Bonds in 5 years.  None. Zero.  

4.  The starting pitching has only 2 solids.  Lincecum and Cain.  Sanchez is potential while the 45 year old with back problems and Zito are wishful thinking at this point.  

Thats just simply the way it is.  Anything can happen for sure, but that won&#039;t be because of a long range plan on management&#039;s part.  Teams sometimes win in spite of the stupidity of its front office.  But thats no reason to delude oneself into ignoring baseball reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll spell it real slow for the trollops whose knowledge of baseball is limited to Topps, Fleers, Giants press releases, internet and the math club.</p>
<p>1.  Larry Baer:  &#8220;THE GIANTS ARE ABOUT PROVIDING THEIR FANS WITH A BALLPARK EXPERIENCE&#8221;  not &#8220;The Giants are about providing their fans with championship baseball&#8221;</p>
<p>2.  Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand, Randy Johnson, Edgar Renteria.  Just under $50 million per year.</p>
<p>3.  Not a single impact offensive player, other than Bonds in 5 years.  None. Zero.  </p>
<p>4.  The starting pitching has only 2 solids.  Lincecum and Cain.  Sanchez is potential while the 45 year old with back problems and Zito are wishful thinking at this point.  </p>
<p>Thats just simply the way it is.  Anything can happen for sure, but that won&#8217;t be because of a long range plan on management&#8217;s part.  Teams sometimes win in spite of the stupidity of its front office.  But thats no reason to delude oneself into ignoring baseball reality.</p>
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		<title>By: giantsrainman</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32231</link>
		<dc:creator>giantsrainman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32231</guid>
		<description>What A Total Asshole You Are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What A Total Asshole You Are.</p>
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		<title>By: Fishchum</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32230</link>
		<dc:creator>Fishchum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32230</guid>
		<description>Matt Cain not clutching up? I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the problem. I think he finished with a top 10 ERA last season. What he needs is a little fucking run support. To blame him for his W-L record is ridiculous. Yes, he does run up his pitch count early in the game sometimes, but that may be be cause he&#039;s probably beginning to feel he has to pitch a complete game shutout to win. Not an unusual problem with a young (younger than Lincecum) pitcher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Cain not clutching up? I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the problem. I think he finished with a top 10 ERA last season. What he needs is a little fucking run support. To blame him for his W-L record is ridiculous. Yes, he does run up his pitch count early in the game sometimes, but that may be be cause he&#8217;s probably beginning to feel he has to pitch a complete game shutout to win. Not an unusual problem with a young (younger than Lincecum) pitcher.</p>
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		<title>By: El</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/12/27/money-money-money-money/comment-page-1/#comment-32229</link>
		<dc:creator>El</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=933#comment-32229</guid>
		<description>And nobody &lt;b&gt;ever&lt;/b&gt; knows WTF you&#039;re talking about.

The venomous and interminable spittle is as tedious as it is predictable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And nobody <b>ever</b> knows WTF you&#8217;re talking about.</p>
<p>The venomous and interminable spittle is as tedious as it is predictable.</p>
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