<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: &#8230;. Pitch count</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:09:22 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: nostockstjustbonds</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30672</link>
		<dc:creator>nostockstjustbonds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30672</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not trying to quibble, but I&#039;d argue that Schmidt was still pretty good after that 144 (not 143) pitch 1-0 game against the Cubs in May 2004 in which he struck out 13 (not 17). He also had 4 (not 1) different months after May 2004 in which he had an era under 3.00 (June &amp; August 2004, May &amp; June 2006). He also had 3 additional months after May 2004 in which he had an era under 3.50. What I&#039;d really look at is the 124 pitch, 16k game against the Marlins on June 6, 2006 (yeah, 666) as the true beginning of the end. His era really took off from that point on, as did his whip and he never was consistently the same after that great game, though he did have a few more highlights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not trying to quibble, but I&#8217;d argue that Schmidt was still pretty good after that 144 (not 143) pitch 1-0 game against the Cubs in May 2004 in which he struck out 13 (not 17). He also had 4 (not 1) different months after May 2004 in which he had an era under 3.00 (June &amp; August 2004, May &amp; June 2006). He also had 3 additional months after May 2004 in which he had an era under 3.50. What I&#8217;d really look at is the 124 pitch, 16k game against the Marlins on June 6, 2006 (yeah, 666) as the true beginning of the end. His era really took off from that point on, as did his whip and he never was consistently the same after that great game, though he did have a few more highlights.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike New</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30654</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike New</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30654</guid>
		<description>The person we should be listening to the most is his Father.  He&#039;s spent his whole life working and molding this kid into the pitcher he is today.  I agree that we shouldn&#039;t press him as much as we have this year.  But, the kid is a horse...according to his Dad...let&#039;s let him run a bit every now and then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The person we should be listening to the most is his Father.  He&#8217;s spent his whole life working and molding this kid into the pitcher he is today.  I agree that we shouldn&#8217;t press him as much as we have this year.  But, the kid is a horse&#8230;according to his Dad&#8230;let&#8217;s let him run a bit every now and then.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jay T.</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30653</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30653</guid>
		<description>LOL... You&#039;d better believe the Giants are looking for any loopholes in his contract right about now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230; You&#8217;d better believe the Giants are looking for any loopholes in his contract right about now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: throw baseball pitches</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30640</link>
		<dc:creator>throw baseball pitches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30640</guid>
		<description>[...] our friend OGC??s comments to start my own discussion: Last year was Lincecum??s first year in the mhttp://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/Lost art of pitching Yahoo! SportsRoy Halladay is one of the last pitchers in baseball capable of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] our friend OGC??s comments to start my own discussion: Last year was Lincecum??s first year in the mhttp://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/Lost art of pitching Yahoo! SportsRoy Halladay is one of the last pitchers in baseball capable of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blair Conrad</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30639</link>
		<dc:creator>Blair Conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30639</guid>
		<description>I was a pitcher, (I&#039;ve eaten myself off of the mound, a David Wells type) and I never iced my arm. I also never pitched with pitch counts, mostly because no one cared, least of all me. I feel like the only person who knows how a pitcher&#039;s arm feels is the pitcher. If my arm felt bad I stoppped throwing until it felt better. If there&#039;s a structural problem in a guy&#039;s elbow or shoulder it&#039;s gonna break. No amount of rest is gonna help. I&#039;m in the &quot;the more throwing the better camp&quot;, it just makes sense to me that the more you do something the stronger you get.

After saying all that, I do feel that the day that Lincecum was held out from starting due to the weather and was then brought in in relief was bad. It&#039;s my understanding that he came in and pitched, there was then a weather delay, and then he was brought back in to pitch again after the delay. I would not have done that with my arm and mine wasn&#039;t worth nearly as much as Lincecum&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a pitcher, (I&#8217;ve eaten myself off of the mound, a David Wells type) and I never iced my arm. I also never pitched with pitch counts, mostly because no one cared, least of all me. I feel like the only person who knows how a pitcher&#8217;s arm feels is the pitcher. If my arm felt bad I stoppped throwing until it felt better. If there&#8217;s a structural problem in a guy&#8217;s elbow or shoulder it&#8217;s gonna break. No amount of rest is gonna help. I&#8217;m in the &#8220;the more throwing the better camp&#8221;, it just makes sense to me that the more you do something the stronger you get.</p>
<p>After saying all that, I do feel that the day that Lincecum was held out from starting due to the weather and was then brought in in relief was bad. It&#8217;s my understanding that he came in and pitched, there was then a weather delay, and then he was brought back in to pitch again after the delay. I would not have done that with my arm and mine wasn&#8217;t worth nearly as much as Lincecum&#8217;s.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: marc</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30629</link>
		<dc:creator>marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30629</guid>
		<description>couple of things... I may be the only person under the age of 65 to still read the magazine, but Baseball Digest this month had some great words from Leo Mazzone regarding young pitchers, saying, in effect, that minor league pitchers are not getting enough innings in, in other words building up to a typical major league workload, and that&#039;s why there are so many young pitchers getting injured.

So, I say, as echoed above, what the hell difference does it make to pitch Lincecum more than absolutely necessary? Will it be that one game out at the end of the season where we miss the playoffs? Very very foolish not be very careful with Lincecum and Cain - I watched the game in question, and in pure baseball terms, yes I would have left him in as they did, but not in a &quot;give a shit about his career&quot; terms. Absolutely pointless this year to risk injury to win ballgames.

Secondly, and looking at the line score tells it all - I know this was recently a topic, but something is definitely wrong with Zito. I didn&#039;t see the game, just read the boxscore, but there has to be more going on than &quot;lost 5 mph off his fastball&quot;. Okay, he&#039;s not worth a gazillion dollars a year, granted, but his starts are becoming more and more of a travesty. Minus an outside cause, he is not this bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>couple of things&#8230; I may be the only person under the age of 65 to still read the magazine, but Baseball Digest this month had some great words from Leo Mazzone regarding young pitchers, saying, in effect, that minor league pitchers are not getting enough innings in, in other words building up to a typical major league workload, and that&#8217;s why there are so many young pitchers getting injured.</p>
<p>So, I say, as echoed above, what the hell difference does it make to pitch Lincecum more than absolutely necessary? Will it be that one game out at the end of the season where we miss the playoffs? Very very foolish not be very careful with Lincecum and Cain &#8211; I watched the game in question, and in pure baseball terms, yes I would have left him in as they did, but not in a &#8220;give a shit about his career&#8221; terms. Absolutely pointless this year to risk injury to win ballgames.</p>
<p>Secondly, and looking at the line score tells it all &#8211; I know this was recently a topic, but something is definitely wrong with Zito. I didn&#8217;t see the game, just read the boxscore, but there has to be more going on than &#8220;lost 5 mph off his fastball&#8221;. Okay, he&#8217;s not worth a gazillion dollars a year, granted, but his starts are becoming more and more of a travesty. Minus an outside cause, he is not this bad.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Al Blackwell</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30624</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Blackwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30624</guid>
		<description>Dr. Mike Marshall, who set major league records for most appearances in a season for a pitcher (106), most consecutive games pitched (13) and most innings pitched in a season (208) states on his website  drmikemarshall.com that he never iced his arm and never advises any pitcher to ice their arms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Mike Marshall, who set major league records for most appearances in a season for a pitcher (106), most consecutive games pitched (13) and most innings pitched in a season (208) states on his website  drmikemarshall.com that he never iced his arm and never advises any pitcher to ice their arms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 10 major muscles</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30621</link>
		<dc:creator>10 major muscles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30621</guid>
		<description>[...] our friend OGC??s comments to start my own discussion: Last year was Lincecum??s first year in the mhttp://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/Olympics Notebook Washington&#039;s Jordan Boase is a track contender who needed a nudge Seattle [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] our friend OGC??s comments to start my own discussion: Last year was Lincecum??s first year in the mhttp://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/Olympics Notebook Washington&#8217;s Jordan Boase is a track contender who needed a nudge Seattle [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30605</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30605</guid>
		<description>Maybe we should ice Zito&#039;s arm...can&#039;t really make him any worse, can it?  I almost wish he&#039;d just go Steve Blass on us.  This is just ridiculous.  He&#039;s worse than Woody would be if he were still pitching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe we should ice Zito&#8217;s arm&#8230;can&#8217;t really make him any worse, can it?  I almost wish he&#8217;d just go Steve Blass on us.  This is just ridiculous.  He&#8217;s worse than Woody would be if he were still pitching.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: El</title>
		<link>http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/archives/2008/04/26/pitch-count/comment-page-1/#comment-30593</link>
		<dc:creator>El</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.onlybaseballmatters.com/?p=883#comment-30593</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Lincecum and Lefty&lt;/b&gt;
by Joe Sheehan &#124; Baseball Prospectus

&lt;i&gt;Remember the 1972 Phillies? I don’t, either. I was a year old, and unlike Rany Jazayerli, I was not already in third grade at that age. The &#039;72 Phils, however, get talked about quite a bit because of one very special pitcher. Left-hander Steve Carlton joined the team near the end of February, traded away from the Cardinals to resolve a contract dispute. The tall southpaw had been a good, but not great pitcher in his career to date, making three All-Star teams and winning 20 games in 1971, but struggling enough with his command—207 walks in two seasons—to keep his ERAs in &#039;70 and &#039;71 relatively high.

In &#039;72, pitching for the worst team in the league, Carlton had the season of his—or many others’—life, throwing 346 1/3 innings, completing 30 of his 41 starts, winning both the NL Cy Young Award and the pitching triple crown. In a season shortened by a player strike, Carlton was the winning pitcher in just 46 percent of the Phillies’ wins, and the starter in just shy of half of them. When he pitched, the Phillies were 29-11 (.760). When he didn’t, they were 30-86 (.259). The Phillies allowed 93 runs in games Carlton started, 2.7 per game. They allowed 542 in the other 116 games, an average of 4.7, or close to twice as many per game. He was the team’s only All-Star, and arguably its only good player.

Thirty-six years later, we may be dancing this dance again. Tim Lincecum is to the 2008 Giants what Steve Carlton was to those 1972 Phillies—an ace among deuces, a man among men, the only thing keeping the team out of Triple-A. 

So far this season, the Giants are 5-0 when he pitches, 6-13 when he doesn’t. They’re +9 in run differential and have allowed just seven runs in the five games (1.4 R/G) in which Lincecum pitched. They’re -41 and have allowed 99 runs (5.3 R/G) in the other 19.

Lincecum is the entire reason for this. Supported by 12 runs in his four starts, he’s held the opposition to just three runs in those outings. Throw in a relief appearance in his season debut (an odd game in which Bochy initially held Lincecum out due to the threat of a rain delay), and he’s allowed just four runs in 29 1/3 innings, striking out 34 men. He has yet to allow a home run and has given up just five doubles among his 27 hits allowed. Yes, 27. 

That&#039;s beceause, despite a great strikeout rate, &lt;b&gt;the Giants’ porous defense rates 27th in the NL in Defensive Efficiency, and that has helped Lincecum allow a .380 batting average on balls in play.&lt;/b&gt; 

His numbers could and should be better if not for the Giants’ inability to prevent singles. The return of Omar Vizquel won’t help all that much; he’s not that much better with the glove then Brian Bocock is, and the Giants’ real problem is on the right side of the infield, where they have just one marginally average defender on the days that Rich Aurilia plays first base.

Tim Lincecum is 4-0, 1.23 despite getting virtually no support from his offense or his defense. He’s the closest thing to a one-man team in MLB—his combined pitching and hitting VORP is 15.3, and the rest of the Giants have combined for 10.7. 

He is, like Carlton was in 1972, a superior talent on a team not remotely worthy of him. I half expect that they slip little pieces of paper into the game programs at AT&amp;T Park now—&quot;The role of Barry Bonds will be played by Tim Lincecum.&quot;

The Giants aren’t even as good as their 11-13 mark would indicate. One of the quirks in their season to date is that they’ve been very lucky. They’ve outperformed their runs scored and runs allowed by 2.7 games, second only to the Marlins. The Giants are 6-4 in one-run games, +2 runs, and 5-9, -34 in the other 14.

When they’re tied late in the game, I’m actually rooting for them; I would be pretty entertained to see the worst team in baseball, or at least a contender for the crown, play .600 ball in one-run games while losing the rest by close to three runs a contest. It will make for a great teaching point about how team quality disassociates from performance the closer the games are. The crowd that insists performance in one-run games is about knowing how to win would have a fun time explaining how a team that goes 34-76 when the game isn’t close is 33-19 when it is because of some special character they possess.

Even if that happens, on every fifth day, the Giants will be a lot of fun to watch thanks to Lincecum. &lt;b&gt;The right-hander is rapidly reaching that Pedro Martinez level&lt;/b&gt; where any game he pitches is the game to watch that night, with the potential for 15 strikeouts, a no-hitter, or one of those shutout/two-homer combinations that puts the &quot;one-man team&quot; issue into sharp relief.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Lincecum and Lefty</b><br />
by Joe Sheehan | Baseball Prospectus</p>
<p><i>Remember the 1972 Phillies? I don’t, either. I was a year old, and unlike Rany Jazayerli, I was not already in third grade at that age. The &#8216;72 Phils, however, get talked about quite a bit because of one very special pitcher. Left-hander Steve Carlton joined the team near the end of February, traded away from the Cardinals to resolve a contract dispute. The tall southpaw had been a good, but not great pitcher in his career to date, making three All-Star teams and winning 20 games in 1971, but struggling enough with his command—207 walks in two seasons—to keep his ERAs in &#8216;70 and &#8216;71 relatively high.</p>
<p>In &#8216;72, pitching for the worst team in the league, Carlton had the season of his—or many others’—life, throwing 346 1/3 innings, completing 30 of his 41 starts, winning both the NL Cy Young Award and the pitching triple crown. In a season shortened by a player strike, Carlton was the winning pitcher in just 46 percent of the Phillies’ wins, and the starter in just shy of half of them. When he pitched, the Phillies were 29-11 (.760). When he didn’t, they were 30-86 (.259). The Phillies allowed 93 runs in games Carlton started, 2.7 per game. They allowed 542 in the other 116 games, an average of 4.7, or close to twice as many per game. He was the team’s only All-Star, and arguably its only good player.</p>
<p>Thirty-six years later, we may be dancing this dance again. Tim Lincecum is to the 2008 Giants what Steve Carlton was to those 1972 Phillies—an ace among deuces, a man among men, the only thing keeping the team out of Triple-A. </p>
<p>So far this season, the Giants are 5-0 when he pitches, 6-13 when he doesn’t. They’re +9 in run differential and have allowed just seven runs in the five games (1.4 R/G) in which Lincecum pitched. They’re -41 and have allowed 99 runs (5.3 R/G) in the other 19.</p>
<p>Lincecum is the entire reason for this. Supported by 12 runs in his four starts, he’s held the opposition to just three runs in those outings. Throw in a relief appearance in his season debut (an odd game in which Bochy initially held Lincecum out due to the threat of a rain delay), and he’s allowed just four runs in 29 1/3 innings, striking out 34 men. He has yet to allow a home run and has given up just five doubles among his 27 hits allowed. Yes, 27. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s beceause, despite a great strikeout rate, <b>the Giants’ porous defense rates 27th in the NL in Defensive Efficiency, and that has helped Lincecum allow a .380 batting average on balls in play.</b> </p>
<p>His numbers could and should be better if not for the Giants’ inability to prevent singles. The return of Omar Vizquel won’t help all that much; he’s not that much better with the glove then Brian Bocock is, and the Giants’ real problem is on the right side of the infield, where they have just one marginally average defender on the days that Rich Aurilia plays first base.</p>
<p>Tim Lincecum is 4-0, 1.23 despite getting virtually no support from his offense or his defense. He’s the closest thing to a one-man team in MLB—his combined pitching and hitting VORP is 15.3, and the rest of the Giants have combined for 10.7. </p>
<p>He is, like Carlton was in 1972, a superior talent on a team not remotely worthy of him. I half expect that they slip little pieces of paper into the game programs at AT&amp;T Park now—&#8221;The role of Barry Bonds will be played by Tim Lincecum.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Giants aren’t even as good as their 11-13 mark would indicate. One of the quirks in their season to date is that they’ve been very lucky. They’ve outperformed their runs scored and runs allowed by 2.7 games, second only to the Marlins. The Giants are 6-4 in one-run games, +2 runs, and 5-9, -34 in the other 14.</p>
<p>When they’re tied late in the game, I’m actually rooting for them; I would be pretty entertained to see the worst team in baseball, or at least a contender for the crown, play .600 ball in one-run games while losing the rest by close to three runs a contest. It will make for a great teaching point about how team quality disassociates from performance the closer the games are. The crowd that insists performance in one-run games is about knowing how to win would have a fun time explaining how a team that goes 34-76 when the game isn’t close is 33-19 when it is because of some special character they possess.</p>
<p>Even if that happens, on every fifth day, the Giants will be a lot of fun to watch thanks to Lincecum. <b>The right-hander is rapidly reaching that Pedro Martinez level</b> where any game he pitches is the game to watch that night, with the potential for 15 strikeouts, a no-hitter, or one of those shutout/two-homer combinations that puts the &#8220;one-man team&#8221; issue into sharp relief.</i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
