Again, I ask, Bruce Bochy? That’s who we needed to get when we decided that perhaps the rumors about Felipe Alou’s destructive ways with pitchers were true? Now, we’re at the start of the second full season with Bochy as the manager, and there is nothing that has happened since he’s been here to make me feel any better than I did the day he arrived:
More good news out of the Giants camp, as we learn that manager Bruce Bochy intends to let the Giants run and run:
…. “I would like to have our guys play their game,” Bochy said. “I don’t want to change the game because we do have Barry in the cleanup hole. You get to the point of diminishing returns sometime when you try to force the issue. If we think now is the time to run or hit-and-run, we’re going to play the game. You can’t sit back and wait on one guy or two guys. ”
Since all I ever do is complain, let me just explain how happy I am to hear this. Fantastic news, really, especially since, with Bonds batting fourth; there will be already at least 70 games in which he won’t get to the plate in the first inning. Now we get the additional treat of advocating a reckless, proven to be virtually useless “speed” game, which will also provide the added treat of watching a) Bonds being intentionally walked with first base open an extra 20 times, and b) another ten or twenty first innings ending with Bonds in the on-deck circle as these old men get thrown out. Hooray.
Doesn’t anyone in the Giants organization read books? You know, baseball books, with information, research and analysis in them? Bochy, a grizzly, veteran-loving, old basball playing, tobacco-chewing, tough guy (who once famously intentionally walked Bonds in a meaningless situation after proclaiming how his team would never fear any one hitter), is now the second coming of Whitey Herzog. I’m telling you, I’m starting to have real thoughts of abandoning this team, as they continue down a path of baseball ignorance that I simply cannot stomach anymore.
That’s from December of 2006. That’s right, I was already talking about dumping this team almost two years ago. It also means that we’ve been hearing this lie about youth and speed for the same amount of time. Right about now, you must be wondering where I’m going with this rant. So, what’s my point, anyway?
Bruce Bochy, who will from this point forward be known as Bonehead, will not be here when this team is good again. He will not be here when Lincecum wins a Cy Young. He will not be here when Matt Cain finally gets some runs. He is keeping the chair warm for a real manager. By the time the Giants are competitive again, Bochy will be on ESPN telling us how important it is to have a set lineup that puts your worst hitters in the top of the order so as to get their horrible at-bats out of the way quickly.
In the meantime, his job is pretty fucking simple. DON’T GET LINCECUM OR CAIN INJURED!!!!!!!
Last night, Bonehead decided that protecting the single most valuable commodity in the entire fucking organization was for pansey’s. A real man, one who chews tobacco and kicks his dog, can pitch for an inning and then take an hour and a half break and come back just fine. Youngest player on the team? No issue. Best player on the team? Whatever. He’s tough.
…. Lincecum entered the game to pitch the fourth inning, his first relief appearance since college, after Valdez and Jack Taschner pitched shutout ball over the first three.
In a stunning and risky move involving the young pitcher they call The Franchise, Bochy allowed Lincecum to pitch one inning then return to a cold, damp mound after sitting through the 74-minute delay. Even older, established pitchers rarely do that.
Lincecum threw 84 pitches over four innings, allowing one run and striking out four to get the win. What a turnabout from last season, when the Giants babied Lincecum so he would not overtax his valuable right arm.
Bochy defended the decision, saying, “If we thought we were going to hurt his arm, we wouldn’t have done it.”
Bochy conferred with Lincecum, pitching coach Dave Righetti and bullpen coach Mark Gardner during the delay. Lincecum reminded them he often sat through rain delays during high school and college games in Washington. But even Lincecum later admitted he had not returned after a delay as long as Wednesday’s.
“That,” he said, “was a first for me.”
Lincecum also acknowledged the move might be viewed as risky, “but it doesn’t feel like it to me. My arm felt good. People have called me a freak of nature before. This will give them another reason.”
Had the delay gone a few minutes longer, Bochy said, he would have gone with another pitcher. That’s what Torre did. He had Billingsley start the fifth inning before the delay, but Esteban Loaiza took the mound when the game resumed.
If we thought we were going to hurt his arm, we wouldn’t have done it. Unbelievable. We’re three games into the season, and here’s what we’ve already learned:
Bonehead doesn’t know how to put together a lineup. He doesn’t know how to get his players ready to play defense. He doesn’t know how to decide who should play or sit. He doesn’t know how to organize his bullpen, or use it. He doesn’t know how to get his players ready to play, to pitch, to catch the ball, or to hit. And he doesn’t know who is valuable, or how to handle them. Other than that, he’s doing a bang-up job.
And, as for Magowan’s regrets, well, interestingly enough, I wrote about it in that same post:
…. “I can’t tell you how many conversations we had with excellent free-agent players during this offseason who did want to come here,” Magowan said. “We ended up with Ray Durham, but there were some excellent other second baseman who wanted to come here. This image that we’re going to go out and get players, and not be able to deliver on that, the public perception, I regret that.”
Yeah, well, regrets are like assholes, Peter. I regret that you are either blind to the failings of your GM, or are blind to your own; because at this point in time, your team is about tenth or twelth on the list of potential places to play for big-time free agents. Between the Bonds show, your systematic degradation of your major league team, your failure to effectively and accurately evaluate talent, and your neglect of your farm system; you’ve sent out a very clear message to any potential free agent: the inmates are running the asylum in San Francisco.
And let me further state that this problem goes all the way back to your failure to make a real effort to sign Vladimir Guererro. At the time of his free agency, he represented an EXACT fit for what your team needed; an immediate replacement for Kent’s bat, an All Star caliber outfielder with the best arm in the game to shore up your defense, and he was a younger superstar who would have been able to pick up the slack for Bonds as his career wound down. You and your GM low-balled him, (so that you could claim that you went after him, but still avoid actually paying him); and in the end, you came off as small-time. This franchise has never recovered from that miscalculation; just as it has never really recovered from Game Six.
Sabean (or is it really you) haven’t made one significant move since then that could be considered to have worked, (other than perhaps the signing of Vizquel); and you’ve made about ten that have been abysmal. What’s really aggravating is that you guys spend all this time telling us about your financial limitations while throwing tens of millions of dollars on the ground. $18 million to Reuter when he was neither worth it or up for renewal, $27 million to Benitez, Alou, and now Dave Roberts; I mean, you could have signed Guerrero with no trouble at all if it hadn’t been for the ridiculous, albatross contracts you gave to virtually every mediocre “veteran” reaching the end of the line in baseball for the last decade.
Look in the mirror if you want to know why every free agent signs somewhere else; because it has nothing to do with where someone’s ranch is.
Also on ESPN:
Giants looking for help at 1B
According to the San Francisco Chronicle, Giants’ general manager Brian Sabean is looking for a left-handed hitting first baseman.
The Nationals’ Nick Johnson and the Braves’ Scott Thorman were mentioned as possible candidates to fill the void.
——–
Okay. WHAT THE FUCK? What’s the point here? My God we’re in trouble…
What’s with the “we’re” in trouble Kemosabe? They’re stopped being we a long time ago when Magowan decided he knew more about baseball and baseball players than actual baseball people and baseball players.
Well, it’s a Giants site and it’s a lot easier to write “we” than “that pathetic excuse for a team that we watch because we’re masochists”
Here’s a bit of what he wrote, after commenting on some other columnist’s stuff…
But what has changed since Opening Day, exactly? Sure, a few nicks and scrapes here and there, same as most teams are going to suffer over the course of a typical week. Nothing that’s going to significantly impact the figures. And just one week ago, the figures didn’t suggest the Giants were anywhere near lousy enough to lose 107 games.
I sort of collect preseason projections, and this season I collected six of them: five “computer” projections and one betting line. The Giants’ record this season, as predicted by those six: 73-89, 74-88, 79-83, 74-88, 69-93, 71-91. If you average all those records, you wind up with 74-88.
But I didn’t believe the Giants would be that good. So I went way, way, way farther than usual and knocked four wins off their consensus projection. Let me be clear about this: While I often adjust the figures up or down for various reasons, four games is a real stretch. So I took this drastic (for me) measure … and I still have the Giants winning 70 games.
Why? How? I don’t know. Even if I checked projections for each Giant, I probably still wouldn’t know. What I do know is that a great way to go broke quickly is betting against the consensus projections. Last year the Nationals were supposed to lose 100 games; they went 73-89. The year before that the Marlins were supposed to lose 100 games; they went 78-84. In both cases (as I recall) the consensus projections suggested that neither team would lose anything like 100 games.
So yes, the Giants look bad right now. Also: abominable, atrocious, awful, crappy, crummy, deficient, dreadful, god-awful, gross, inferior, lousy, stinking, substandard and the pits.
But they don’t look to me like a 100-loss team. Not yet.
Thanks, Jay T. Good to read that the “consensus” is that the Giants aren’t as bad as they look, although you sure could have fooled me…
My response would be that they don’t look like a 100-loss team, they look like a 110 loss team.
Has anyone read Rob Neyer’s column on the ESPN web site today, titled “How awful are the Giants?” You have to be a premium subscriber to read this article which I am not, so I’m interested in knowing how awful Neyer thinks we are. Little help?
Miller did announce it was the biggest paid crowd in stadium history. MLB decided several years ago to announce paid attendance rather than butts in seats, so whatever “attendance” is announced has nothing to do with who’s at the ballpark. It should more properly be announced as “receipts” than “attendance.” That’s not new, but the disparity was less apparent in SF when people actually showed up – mostly to watch Mr. Bonds, I dare say.
As Toni pointed out, in Oakland it doesn’t make much difference – in fact, there may be more people in the park than bought tickets.
Anyway, it’s good to keep this in mind when listening to Bug Selig or any MLB front office when they talk about “attendance” – its about bucks, not butts.
Man, if the booing has already started on the home opener, this is going to get really ugly. Let’s hope attendance drops enough that they can’t just fake it because the empty seats will speak for themselves. It’s not like I want the franchise to do poorly, but they need to be punished for their stupidity.
…I hope you don’t believe the Foreclosure Prevention Act of 2008 is meant to prevent foreclosures.
hahaha!
um no.
It’s quite possible that I didn’t hear Miller correctly… but it really surprised me with what I thought I heard.
Was anybody listening to the game and can perahps confirm or deny what I heard? It was near the end of the game when Miller said it, maybe around the 7th or 8th inning.
I’m curious to hear from those who went yesterday but the reports from friends I got were there were under 40,000 butts in seats for sure. More like 35,000. And by the 7th inning it looked like Dodger Stadium with less then 20,000 people left.
They’ll be announcing sellout crowds every night but a smaller and smaller group will actually be showing up as the season progresses.
“John Miller announced it was the biggest paid attendance for opening day in park history”
Plain and simple lie. 5000 tickets were available this morning. If not a lie, a colored truth, for Magowan bought the remaining tickets up at a penny apiece.
I hope you don’t believe the Foreclosure Prevention Act of 2008 is meant to prevent foreclosures.
I have to admit to being a little jealous, as hard as that is for me to admit. I love listening to baseball when I’m working (I’m an accounting manager) and when John Miller announced it was the biggest paid attendance for opening day in park history I said to myself, wow.
The Giants could possibly have one of the worst teams in the league and fans are still turning out. I don’t know if it’s ignorance, love, apathy or whatever, I just wish we had a few more like folks who followed the A’s.
:-\
Man… they’re getting hammered in the home opener. One inning left and only three hits on the day. This season could be even uglier than we imagined. When should we start pulling up stats from the 1962 Mets?
They’re going to blow past the Mets by September.
1899 Cleveland Spiders. 20-134. W-L .129
2008 Giants 1-6 W-L .143
LOL
I just played a game of Strat-o-Matic from 2007
Masochism?
That’s all I have. Each season’s cards are from the previous year. I think I’ll play a game from 1954 again.
I just played a game of Strat-o-Matic from 2007. I’m weighing whether or not to try to recreate the 2007 Giants season, and that’s with my personalized card in CF and one of my son’s at 2B. I don’t think that I can do it. Aurilia, Klesko, Zito, Feliz? And on and on. It’s just atrocious. The only players that I like are Cain, Winn, and Lincecum. And this is 2008 and the roster’s even worse.
40 wins is looking very possible now. I cried when I saw today’s lineup. Brewers should consider cutting Sheets for not getting a no hitter.
I think the comment about Zito being for “image” was spot on. Reasonable people (meaning including those here) have reasonable opinions about steroids, pro or con, but the public is probably permanently stuck on it being super-android devil juice. Unfortunately, the arguments saying that it isn’t are too “deep” for the general public. I really don’t mean to be cynical or demeaning, but I think public impression is pretty much set in stone by now.
I’ve also posted before, and I still believe it to be true, that Guerrero/Zito/Bonds size signings are MacGowan’s final say. It’s his money ultimately, however foolishly spent (or not spent). Goodness knows I’m not a Sabean apologist, but we don’t know if signing Zito is even something Sabean approved of. Owners are notorious for liking shiny objects, and I have to think a “name” is worth $10 million more than a non-name in MacGowan’s mind.
the team’s strength was starting pitching
Man, I get tired of hearing/reading that.
They projected to have 2 terrific young starters, Zito at below league avg and getting worse, Lowry – 85Ks 85BB who would be #4 on the RAYS fer godsake, and then Correia or Hennesey. This rotation of hope was badly supported by a pen that was dead last in inherited runners scored in 07.
It’s akin to Custer saying he liked his chances because his men had hats with brims and he could build on that.
I remember thinking when Vlad became a free agent that “of course” the Giants would sign him because it was such an obvious move and that way they’d have Bonds replacement and a few years of them side by side. I even bet a friend and lost. That moment, I think, really did mark the beginning of the end for this team… they got too fucking cheap when it came to that huge fork in the road. But hey, at least Barry Zito’s contract is looking pretty good, right?
John,
I think Magowan is just as culpable- if not more so- for the Giants mess than is Sabean. The latter’s recent track record suggests he needs to be fired on principle, but I am not optimistic that his successor will be much better. From what I understand, it was Magowan’s decision to sign Zito, not Sabean’s, and the owner has bought into this idea that the Giants must be a scrappy low-offense team in order to succeed, ignoring the several years of recent success that belie this belief.
This is never emphasized enough. I definitely wondered if some of that nonsense on Wed. was related to Magowan/Sabean (either or both) calling down to the dugout like Charlie Finley. I’m reluctant to pin too much definitively on any one person in particular because it’s not really clear. I’d guess that Sabean’s contract extension implies that he’s the “brains” of the operation, but I think the sacks of money thrown at Bonds, Zito, etc. were Magowan’s idea to get press/look like the Giants were trying to improve in panic mode.
I’d say the rationale behind the Zito signing was about 80% PR, 20% baseball. Magowan was clearly embarrassed that Bonds’ reputation had cast the franchise in a negative light and thought Zito- good-looking, California native, easy-going surfer dude- would be the perfect face for the Giants. I cannot believe anyone truly expected Zito to bounce back to his 01/02 form and be an ace, nor do I believe that the Giants truly thought that paying through the nose for a starting pitcher was truly the best use of their resources from a baseball perspective. If I’m wrong about this, then man- we truly are fucked.
Something we tend to forget: even if John’s steroids commentary was spot-on, which I personally believe it was, it really didn’t matter because the vast majority of baseball fans and people disagreed. It doesn’t matter that every team tacitly encouraged roiding and that Bonds was far from the only, or worst, offender. It only matters that this perception was what prevailed. The Giants, in the eyes of baseball fans, had lost face by allowing this surly player with his entourage to “trash” the franchise. Magowan acutely understands this, hence his panicky decision to get Zito.
Somehow I think Magowan will take a perverse satisfaction in the ’08 Giants: a terrible team, yes, but full of “gamers” who play hard and for whom the average fan can root with a clear conscience.
I downward trending, but good looking player signing for a shitload of money isn’t worth 80% PR if he doesn’t do anything. Of course Magowan wanted Zito because of his persona…but he also wanted him because he “thought” that he was a good pitcher. I’d have rather had Jarrod Washburn and his contract. Zito is worse than Washburn. This contract is going to make Zito and the Giants continue to be laughing stocks.
I don’t think that organizations “tacitly encouraged” “steroid” (never defined) use. Players or trainers likely did, but organizations turned a blind eye. Organizations, MLB, the Players Union, players, beat writers, etc. certainly knew what was going on, but “tacitly encourage”? I don’t know about that. The money, the competitive nature of the market (and of the players) and the short lifespan of many of the players in that market led to risk taking by some players. It’s no different than any other aspect of anything else in life. People take risks, people are flawed, people cut corners, people cheat, people are competitive (especially a small crop of baseball players able to play at the MLB level), and people are trying to crash the limited market of MLB money and fame and lifestyles.
I think that Magowan will be humiliated by this team and when the same results happen next year and Cain and Lincecum begin to grumble about looking forward to leaving…not good, not good at all.
It only matters that this perception was what prevailed. The Giants, in the eyes of baseball fans, had lost face by allowing this surly player with his entourage to “trash” the franchise.
————————-
Matter to who?
Giants fans? Apparently you don’t know Giants fans. The ones who actually go to the park. Not the idiots who parrot the SF Chronicle. They sell the place out because Giants fans who actually go the park love Barry Bonds and don’t care one iota about the working relationship MSM has with Barry off the field. None. Not our problem. We don’t give a fuck. Its not our business. Watching the greatest player of the modern era was.
Fans in other cities? You ever check attendance figures when Bonds and the Giants came to town? Even when the Giants sucked.
He was a huge draw. Love or hate, people stood up and cheered when he launched. Even those sad sacks in Philly, LA, Boston, and San Diego.
The MSM? They started bitching about having nothing to write and gossip about as soon as the Giants announced he’ wasn’t coming back. He hasn’t played a game since last year, and yet he’s featured in the sports pages damn near every day.
Other Players? Teammates. Yeah. The Giants really enjoy being the laughingstock. 12 runs in the first 6 games. Rich Aurilia, Dave Roberts, Bochy and Wynn get featured in articles about being wine connoisseurs–not being good ballplayers. Aurilia brags that they spend more time talking about varietals and wine than they do baseball. Thats the veteran presence? Thats the Team Chemistry?
It matters to the politicians and the owners who fear them. It matters to Bud Selig, George Mitchell, George Bush, and a few self-righteous pouting media hacks with a much larger audience than they deserve. And the sycophants who do not question them.
And it matters to that subset of memorabilia freaks and hall of fame junkies who can’t play the game, so who instead, collect shit. Then somebody like Bonds (surly black man) comes along and breaks every record in the world and makes their shit worth even less.
And … “root with a clear conscience?” Are you speaking for yourself or Magowan?
I do agree, however, that the Giants never properly “defended” themselves…and this comes in the form of actually speaking to nuance and debate, even in light of the public’s ever-growing stupidity.
I would have been disappointed at their skulking behavior and hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil presence, if I did not expect anything better. I did not, so I am not disappointed. Merely disgusted that they could have taken this opportunity to educate, communicate, and stand by their guy, their fans and damn Selig, Mitchell and the rest of the political in-crowd. My ire is not so much their ineptness as it is their moral cowardice.
DeBartolo and Steinbrenner, obnoxious as they were, used their stewardships to promote a point of view and extended extreme loyalty to those within their sports family who had served them well. The Giants have done neither, content to run a baseball theme park.
Went to a Rob Neyer speech last night and asked some Giants questions. He didn’t pull any punches about Sabean’s inept GMing. Ahh…so refreshing.
Did he say anything in particular about the Giants, Kent? I love Neyer.
He was speaking about his new book at a local bookstore and it was a very nice event, always a joy to just sit and listen to him. (Hey Rob, yes, I’m going to summarize your response to my questions.) There were all kinds of things discussed during the nearly hours that he spoke with a group of about 20 of us.
At one point the conversation turned to how some managers, GMs, and team management-types could be so stupid, so stupid in light of all the knowledge out there that is so obvious to just Average Joe baseball fan. Rob spoke to how he didn’t believe that managers were that significant (e.g. Joe Torre), but that we could never really know (or quantify) the value of a manager or his influence over his team (e.g. LaRussa’s track record can’t be taken from him or LaFatso convincing the Dodgers one week in one March that they could beat the A’s in the World Series…who knows?). A number of us and a number of questions discussed GMs and how they make their decisions, especially the dumb ones. This went on for some time, specifically around the “Babe Ruth trade” questions. Rob argued that many of the deals made by the Yankees around the Ruth trade made sense at the time (or at least had sense built into them), but that they never worked out. He gave additional examples.
A bit later, Neyer discussed how he expected to see young pitchers just shelved (e.g. Shields with Tampa Bay last year) to keep them below an innings limit. The conversation turned to a number of young (potential) stars (e.g. Buckholz [sp?] and Kennedy/Hughes/Joba) and how he expected them to have their innings “maintained” (my word not his) at a certain level to “preserve” (my word again) them. Tim the Enchanter was not mentioned. But, the tenor of the debate was that fans and franchises wouldn’t forgive a GM if a pitcher (perceived as or really being a future star) got injured by misuse or overuse. These points were discussed for a number of minutes.
Toward the end of the night, I couldn’t resist. My question, if I recall correctly went like this: “So, earlier, you discussed stupid moves by GMs and idiot GMs and I thought of Brian Sabean. Then, you discussed preserving young pitchers and I thought of Tim Lincecum. (For those of you who didn’t see it, Lincecum wasn’t started last night [Wednesday] because of inclement weather in LA, was then brought in as it started to rain, and then sat of 70 minutes during a rain delay, AND THEN brought back to the mound when the game started anew.) What…are the Giants salvageable and what in the hell are they doing?”
He chuckled and said that Sabean was a very poor GM and that many scratched their heads at many of his moves, but that the Giants continued to be were successful during most of his tenure. (Just like here!) Neyer (shocking I know) added that Sabean’s success seemed to be that he was living on the success of Bonds. (Huh…just like here!) He added that Sabean “looked like” a good GM and that he suspected that he had the charm and intelligence to convince many-a-owner that he knew what he was doing; he added that Sabean in Neyer’s place at the bookstore would look like a learned and savvy GM. Of course the reality and the GM-ness (my word) didn’t match the image and the words that came from Sabean’s mouth. (Huh?!?!)
Neyer said that the Giants were a mess and that they were three to five years from success, had very few talented players in their farm system, and were going to be very bad in the near term. (He’d discussed the ridiculous Barry Zito contract earlier and how Zito [duh...like here!] had been clearly trending downward [peaked at 22 to 24] well before the Giants signed him.) But, Neyer added that turnaround success wasn’t impossible in this day (e.g. the Tigers from shit to the World Series). I tried to throw in how the model of the Giants was to develop pitchers to keep some and trade the others and that Sabean didn’t even do that well (Accardo, Schmidt, Lowry). Only part got out as a couple of others chimed in and Neyer began to discuss how the Giants hadn’t developed a position player worth anything since… I said Aurilia or Clayton. He knew that Aurilia had been drafted by the Rangers and had only spend about a year in the Giants farm system (i.e. not credited to the Giants); Clayton he agreed with me on (i.e. as an example, not as a success story). Neyer added that many would consider Feliz someone of value, but added that he didn’t think of Feliz as a success; Feliz as a success is evidence of how ridiculously bad the Giants have been! He believes that the Giants are in particular trouble because the NL West is competitive and young (or with young players coming into their own) and the Giants aren’t either and have an inept front office. (Earlier he discussed the NL’s top young players as being more in number relative to the AL’s top young players.) So, suffice it to say that Neyer sees the objectively idiotic decisions by the Giants and their absolutely silly model for success. He talked about how so many teams were open to innovation and to foreign talent and that stupid GMs and stupid owners were going to be punished even more in the future than they are now. There’s just too much analysis out there on too many players for GM’s to be playing hunches all the time.
He suspects that Sabean would be a good assistant GM, like Alaird (sp?) Baird (former KC GM) with the Red Sox. Baird has positive qualities and is a nice man, but he’s a bad GM and that’s understood. Sabean? Same thing.
(Neyer mentioned liking Manny Acta [like me!
] and that he reads Baseball Prospectus.
A really nice evening and the debate/chat was balanced, open, and continuous for around two hours.
It’s weird…for the first few years of his tenure Sabean always seemed to get the better of the deal. Think of the Matt Williams trade, the Hamilton/Burks trade, the Schmidt trade, the Nen trade, the Livan trade, etc. etc. etc.
Then somehow during the 2002 offseason, he started to get a little goofy, and now he’s just terrible. Everyone knew that Pierzynski would be traded because of Joe Mauer, and yet Sabean still gave up way too much (even assuming at the time that Liriano wouldn’t develop). Everyone knew that the Jays had to trade Hillenbrand (due to the “sinking ship” comment) but Sabean still gave up way too much. Everyone knew Zito was trending downward, and that the team’s strength was starting pitching, yet they still got him for seven years and way too much money. Everyone knew that the team’s only area of relative offensive strength was the outfield, and that Rowand’s numbers were inflated by playing in a hitters park alongside great players, and yet we still gave him five years and a ton of money. These deals don’t only look bad in retrospect, but they even looked suspect at the time. I just read in the Chron that Sabean wasn’t even aware of who Carlos Villanueva was when the Brewers asked for him in the Wayne Franklin trade.
So what happened? How did he go from a clever GM to one who seems outwitted in each transaction? Is it drinking or something?
So what happened? How did he go from a clever GM to one who seems outwitted in each transaction? Is it drinking or something?
—————————–
1. Wouldn’t be the first time for a guy in a pressure situation where drinking is part of the culture to become a booze fighter and lose the battle.
2. His complexion looks like shit. There’ s ruddiness, and then there’s ruptured capillaries.
3. It would explain the irrational decision making going on.
4. Nobody but him knows for sure.
He was always marginal (at best), talked a good game, and got lucky with Schmidt and short term deals (e.g. Burks). That is to say: He was never a very good GM.
Oh hush you fresh from your indoctrination by Rob Neyer…
Seriously though. Baker and Bonds could not get it done, under Bob Quinn. Other than 1993, those were some dismal seasons. As a matter of fact, the Giants had only that one winning season between 1990 and 1997. ONE WINNING SEASON IN 7 YEARS prior to Sabean as a GM
With Sabean’s arrival, 8 CONSECUTIVE WINNING SEASONS up to and including 2004. Obviously he had something to do with it, since he was director of scouting, was a pretty good college coach, at one point.
Sabean, Baker, and Bonds all benefited equally and mutually. And they seemed to be a very good team. And than enter Magowan to take the reins. To inject himself into baseball matters. Its just never been the same since as the record bears out.
Lots of things happen to folks in middle age. Not all of them good. Middle age crisis is no joke for some guys. Especially in an industry where 30 is considered over the hill, where players make the transition from kid to old man in just a few years. A guy who is not prepared for that and has been used to very high levels of success can run into a series of setbacks and come completely unglued rather quickly. Not often and not always to extreme. But it can happen.
He didn’t get stupid overnight. I like the new knowledge guys, but they are like the old knowledge guys in that they spend most of their time talking to each other. I think Sabean has some serious issues. And I think that for the last couple of years he has really not helped this franchise or his own cause either.
You kill me. I failed to place “maybe” in each part of the above. I’m serious, I thought that I had “maybe” at each point. I’m losing my mind because I talked through what I was writing inside my head, posted it, looked at it, and went, “maybe nobody will notice.” Neyer was good though.
Awesome, thanks for the recap Kent!
Speaking of fatuous: Mia. I never said don’t talk about the team, I said don’t expect to get anything from the team you support. Do you think the Giants will be sending you a ring when they finally do win a championship?
Talk of “dumping” the team shows me that you’re in it for the wrong reasons. I think Perricone’s anger comes from the right place but leads him to the wrong one.
It’s not like I’m happy at how dumbfoundingly sh!tty Sabean’s recent moves have been. And trust me, I bitch about them. But being a fan is an almost entirely irrational thing and having expectations for that team on threat of “leaving” it is absurd to me.
hey, mia, now I LIKE Noam Chomsky….
But seriously, and I don’t want to get as fatuous as Mr Steak, it is what it is, and if you’re interested in it, why not talk about it? Sheesh, it’s baseball, I love baseball, I like good baseball, I like my favorite team to play good baseball. If my favorite team doesn’t play good baseball, well I don’t like that so much. That’s not a complicated argument. It doesn’t equate to being run over by a bus, but then again, I’ll worry about that when it happens.
I say the Giants were just as bad 2 years ago, except for Bonds. The tragedy of the whole thing is that if you really think about it, every free agent, every trade, pretty much turned out like a reasonable person might expect. The only possible exceptions are Edgardo (who didn’t really have the track record) and Feliz (who is mystifying in that he never got better at anything at all).
This is the team by design – no tough breaks, no shit happens. Everyone played about like you’d expect them to play. Excepting the state of the farm system, I don’t see Sabean’s performance as abysmal, I see it as crushingly unimaginative. And still, here we are….Rich Aurilia at first. We know what he’ll hit, it’ll be Vorp of zero. For godsakes, poor forsaken Lance Niekro at least has a 10% change of being 10 times as good. Ortmeier. Ten outfielders. Something? Anything? I get interested when one of the 50 rookies comes to the plate. I don’t when it’s Durham. I like Molina because he runs slower than I do and has character, I like Winn, and I’m watching Rowand. Otherwise, dump all the vets and hire Mike Matheny or Britney Spears as manager before we all die of boredom. Hire that minor league manager that threw second base into center field and crawled all over the pitcher’s mound. Maybe we can keep Cain and Lincecum distracted long enough that they don’t notice all the 3-2 games they’re losing. You don’t think Cain isn’t counting the days until free agency?
1. Feliz somehow improved to the point where many metrics rated him the best defensive third baseman last season, capped off by winning the Fielding Bible award (something voted on by people who look at more than just fielding percentage).
2. The farm system is looking better than it did a year ago. Hopefully the Giants will continue to invest in Latin American scouting and signing and continue to go for the BPA high in the draft instead of low-upside, high-certainty pitchers.
saving hundreds of runs with his defense.
Manager should have been Manny Acta.
Schmidt should have been traded to the Rangers–instead they made a crappier deal wit the Padres for Eaton (?) and Otsuka–for Adrian Gonzalez (blocked by Teixeira) and Kinsler (blocked by Soriano) and a pitching prospect or two.
This team was not in fine shape a couple of years ago, it was spiraling toward collapse. I know that the Giants don’t owe me anything, but the lack of competence by Giants management (to me at least) is stunning.
Very eloquent, SSteak, and I think all of us who are passionate fans know this deep down. But the existential railing against incompetence is a much a part of fandom as anything else!!! And when your beloved team is on a downward spiral, not much else gives you joy. (I also think none of us have to establish “bona fides,” we got over that when we were teenagers arguing in the bleachers with Dodger fans.)
The Lincecum Fiasco was classic Bonehead. Why were we so eager to get San Diego’s reject manager? I would have preferred to give Bud Black a shot, we certainly could have landed him if our GM didn’t have his head up his ass.
It seems like Bochy believes there’s not too much difference in how to handle young pitchers v. older ones. He acts like Lincecum will automatically be as durable as Maddux or Livan Hernandez or something, when in fact the Giants should monitor TL with the utmost caution this season (especially this season).
Perricone,
I feel like you’re missing the point. You write that you were thinking about “dumping” the team almost two years ago as if it’s something to be proud of that you made a quasi-prediction about something you knew about…yourself. And two years ago the team wasn’t nearly in the terrible shape it’s in now, so what does that say about your tolerance for losing?
If you treat your fanaticism for any franchise as a sort of mutual relationship, you are delusional, there’s no other way of putting it. You pay for the privilege of attending games, you root for your team at your own hazard; the franchise will do nothing for you. Being a sports fan is (and forgive me for an attempt at waxing philosophical) something existential. You put your time and energy and emotion into something that doesn’t give a shit; you engage with something solely on the chance that, yes, against incalculable odds and in spite of innumerable difficulties, you will be rewarded. But it’s not the team that rewards you. When a franchise wins a championship, nobody that is a part of that franchise has given its fans anything. Fans have merely had the great fortune of positive circumstance, and that’s all it means to be a fan.
You seem to expect and demand competence at all times from the franchise you claim to support–and I’ll be honest; I find your bona fides as a Giants fan lacking right now–but you forget that the Giants don’t owe you anything. And if you are expecting them to be something other than they have been, namely poorly run, on threat of your “dumping” them then all I can say is, sorry John, they were never yours to dump. Not in the way you seem to conceive of it anyway.
Personally, I’d rather keep the perspective of 50 mostly fun years in San Francisco and roughly 100 years of the Giants. There were times when the circumstances were good for the Giants–Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Will Clark, and whatever else you can think of. And there will be such times again. But I know that all I can do is wait, and to make demands on something that I lack control over is foolish.
My. Aren’t we the esoteric one. You need to get out of the school library and stop taking Noam Chomsky seriously.
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I was also stupefied by the way they handled Lincecum last night. You’ve hit the nail on the head in that the major goal for this season is to keep Cain and Lincecum healthy.