Everyone seems to think that A-Rod isn’t worth the kind of money he’s gonna make, and that the Giants have no chance to get him. Huh.
I’m surprised. First, I think $30 million a year is not what it used to be. Juan Pierre got $10 million per. A-Rod is absolutely three times the player Pierre is, and Pierre’s not alone in making that kind of money. If the list of players making $15 or more contains some of these bums, I don’t see how you can conclude that A-Rod wouldn’t be worth $30.
As for whether he can become a Giant, well, the team payroll has to go down as we jettison some of the dead weight we’re carrying now, and I don’t think the amount A-Rod and Zito would earn would be that burdensome. Maybe I’m crazy, but I think it’s a good deal.
Winning teams need TWO hitters with power in the middle of the line-up or have we not learned the lesson of the last 4+ years. So you blow it all on ONE, and you have another mediocre to bad team. Bad idea.
Not to be a wet blanket (he said, being a wet blanket), but I’m truly puzzled by those of you who argue that “Sabean now realizes his approach hasn’t worked, so we can expect something new and better next year.” Perhaps you are the same folks who believed that Pedro Feliz would morph into Albert Pujols when he announced back on Spring Training that he was “working on taking the ball to right field.” The game is too hard for someone to announce “I realize I’ve been a bad GM, but, good news!, now I’ve decided to be a good GM.”
Sabean has been operating like this for 10 years. The entire cast that brought you 2005-2007 is back for 2008: Sabean; Tidrow; Hyatt; Bochy; Lefebvre; heck, Durham, Roberts, and Aurilia will almost surely be back, even though they are expensive and useless. The farm system is so barren that Vizquel and Feliz, who were among the worst regulars in baseball this year, are likely to be re-signed.
The Giants’ operation circa September 2007 reminds me of the Bush administration following the November 2006 elections. Confronted with a repudiation of his policy, Bush announced that he had “received the message loud and clear” from the electorate — but then he continued to do exactly what he had been doing, while everyone stood by helplessly. That is pretty much what I expect from the Giants in 2008. Perhaps they will switch from relying on old mediocrities to playing some of the young and middle-aged mediocrities, but that is the best we can hope for.
It comes down to this for me.
It ain’t my money. If Sabes, McGowan, and everyone can gedt it done. Grab A-Rod. Don’t pretend for an instant that we would be dramatically better with him on board. Don’t pretend for an instant that we’d all be pretty excited to see A-Rod in a Giants uniform.
Also, personally, don’t think for an instant that A-Rod will leave New York. Sad, but true.
Maybe I’m biased because after growing up in the Bay Area, I now live in North Carolina and wouldn’t have to endure the rebuilding process up-close, wouldn’t have to decide whether I was going to keep my tickets while the Giants trotted a 95-loss team out there and everyone waited to see if the prospects panned out in ’11.
But after having my heart broken in ’87 and ’89, enduring the 103-win second place finish in ’93, being shocked and frustrated by the quick playoff ousters of ’97, ’00 and ’03 and of course surviving the ultimate horrow — Game Six in ’02 — all I care about is seeing the Giants win a World Series. Seeing them be competitive for a playoff spot isn’t enough. Sure, it would be an improvement over the last three years, but to me the job of any owner and GM in any professional sport must always be to ask themselves whether what they are doing is contributing to the goal of winning a championship.
Given the last six years of Giants history and the track record of how Sabean and Magowan have chosen to build their single-superstar teams, I don’t believe signing A Rod to a $30 million-plus contract would move the Giants measurably closer to that goal.
Frak A-rod. Nuff said.
I’d do it in a heartbeat, even for $35 million a year. This franchise is constructed and has been constructed to allow for a once-in-a-lifetime player to make a difference. A-Rod in 2008 would be Bonds in 1998 and beyond. I don’t think that he’d likely do it, but I wouldn’t speak to knowing what’s going through A-Rod’s mind. As a human being and a baseball nut, I ‘d love to see him leave NYC with a press conference to remember: you boo me and treat me like crap, why would I want to stay here? Who knows, maybe Barry would even take a pay-cut to bring him and nurse his heir apparant into our mix. The Giants are a mess, sure, but I’d suspect that most players actually do enjoy playing to fans who appreciate them in cities with a baseball tradition…SF has both in spades.
Again, I’m not predicting that he’s coming. But, I don’t understand those who think that he shouldn’t come. The Giants have the money to spend on him. The matter is IF they’re willing to pull the trigger. I think that Zito gives us an indication that they ARE willing to pull the trigger.
Bonds for another year with A-Rod would be an awesome pairing. Magowan would be thrilled by the fan draw of the home run king and future king batting back to back. I believe having these two big (huge?) bats would have a ripple effect of raising averages up and down the lineup, even if the other seven are youngsters.
The risk is that in two years, the team will be back to the single-superstar and 8 supporting players, which could easily lead right back to an imbalance like this year (although it doesn’t always not work).
I think A-Rod is worth it. His presence would raise the probability of other players fulfilling their upside potential, which would make their contracts appear much more reasonable and open the door for a playoff appearance.
Don’t do it. Building the team around a talent like A Rod would only encourage Sabean to continue on the path of the last five years of using surplus parts (or worse) to build around a single superstar. If Bonds’ contract has become a handy excuse for not spending more on the “supporting cast,” what would the combination of A Rod and Zito do to the payroll for the rest of the team? Not to mention the risk that A Rod would be sufficiently productive to lift the team back to mediocrity and mask the ongoing travesty that is the farm system.
If one took an approach of starting with rebuilding the farm system, then making strategic free agent signings to supplement the (theoretically positive) results of that effort as they reached the bigs, how long do people think it would take the Giants to be back in contention?
Four years. There is NOTHING in the farm system that looks promising right now. It’s not like the Giants are rebuilding, it’s like they’ll get around to starting the rebuilding process in a year or two. In the mean time if some of the young pitchers get hurt, this team is definitely capable of losing 100 games.
I say longer then that. This is absolutely cursed when it comes to developing any decent positional players, let alone young star players. Its been 20 years!
It would be fascinating for a year to see A-Rod and Bonds on the same team, even if Bonds only plays 100 games – roughly 4x pwe week.
Assuming A-Rod would even be interested in changing leagues, I would be leery of making a long-term commitment to a 32-year-old — even if he’s the best offensive player in baseball right now. Since Magowan won’t spend the $$ and I doubt A-Rod wants to leave the AL anyway, it doesn’t matter much, but 6-7 years is buying not only A-Rod at 33 but also at 38-39.
Hey Mia-loved your first paragraph, couldn’t agree more. After that,
you basically laid down the Yankee blueprint, so I must respectfully
disagree. The 97 Giants were a wonderful surprise and much like the
current DBacks, they were outscored for the year but still made the playoffs. I’d take that scenario every once in a while over being a Yankee fan (or a fan of the biggest spender, you could simply insert a name). That’s not to say I agree with holding back the $ when the $ should be spent.
The other way to think about this is, Why on earth would Alex Rodriguez want to sign with us? A team on the way down, shelling out big $ in the expectation that one superstar will save them…Alex signed on for EXACTLY that situation in Texas, and three years later he couldn’t wait to get out.
San Francisco crowds have proven unconditional support for their stars (like Bonds), which must be somewhat appealing to A-Rod given that he has to deal with Yankees fans. If he doesn’t go crazy this year in the playoffs (assuming NY makes it) they’ll still be all over him even though they’d have ZERO chance of making it there in the first place without him. On top of that, A-Rod has stated that he loves to play at AT&T park and his numbers prove it so far. The other thing to consider is that while the Giants are a mess right now, frankly, it’s easier to rebuild a lineup these days than it is to rebuild a pitching staff. Our pitching is actually better than the staff has performed this season — they’ve had to deal with a lack of run support, which has often put pitchers in a position where they’re afraid to challenge hitters for fear of giving up even a single run (just ask Matt Cain).
Anyway… the places I see A-Rod most likely to end up are NY, Boston, SF, or LA.
omg john,
now you are thinking like sabean and all the other yahoos
this team cannot be rebuilt on the back of one superstar….it is not sustainable
we must do it from within….or not at all
no arod….no fukomokolokowhwatever
i want nate, raj, lewis, ort, kfran, velez, and whatever other kids we can round up
gosh durnit…..look at the snakes….look at what sabean passed on in byrnes….this is what we need….not another preening superstar
I think he’s worth it, however I hope we don’t pursue him. Because that will just give Magowan and Baer another excuse to hike up ticket prices, once affordable games and now being jacked up more and more every year. It was only a few years ago that I could go to a game for like 30 bucks (that’s including the price of transportation, and food). Now it costs if I’m lucky twice that if not more depending on the opponent and the day the game is held. And its not even like the team is any good and THEY STILL FUCKING RAISE TICKET PRICES. Meanwhile not only are tickets like 3 times as much as they were, but my $ is going to bums like Ray Durham and Barry Zito. FUCK THAT, and FUCK YOU Giants.
Does anyone really have faith in this point that A-Rod would even MAKE a difference if he came here? FUCK NO he wouldn’t. It’s not like he’s Bonds, who not only can still hit tons of HR’s and be productive, but A-Rod strikes out like 120 to 140 times a year. It takes 3 years for Bonds to do that. Least we forget that also A-Rod is WORTHLESS in postseason play. He’s an awesome player and comparatively to bums like Juan Pierre, and others being horribly overpaid he probably is worth 30 mill in this new FA market, but I still hope to GOD we don’t sign him. For one we would still suck and be even more financially hamstrung (and get even MORE excuses) and two it would be next to impossible for me to go to a game ever again. Could you imagine what the “premium” price for a Giant-Dodger game would be after that? 2 seats would probably cost you over a hundred bucks. When 4 years ago for the same 2 seats I could go to the game with my brother for like 35. No thanks.
God forbid we’d be lucky enough to get an owner like Arte Moreno, who not only INCREASES payroll but cuts ticket prices and food prices/beer prices. I just hope we can be that lucky someday….
On another note — John, you changed something on this site over the past week or two and it now loads horribly… in the every-time-a-page-loads-I-hope-it-doesn’t-crash-my-browser kind of way, and my computer is no slouch.
Jay,
You’re the first to mention that. See if disabling the new snapshot feature helps. It’s really the only significant change.
All of the content loads the same as it used to, but just at the very end the page nearly freezes up (you can’t scroll or anything without waiting for a little bit). Not a huge deal, but kind of annoying. This is in IE6 — I haven’t tried it in firefox or IE7 yet (I’m a web developer, and IE6 is still most common browser so I have to stick with it for the time being).
I think A-Rod is worth it, because barring injury he’s pretty much a sure thing. A bad season for him is a great season for most.
However, the idea that he’ll end up a Yankee because only they and maybe 2 or 3 other teams can really afford him pretty much sums up why a salary cap in baseball would be a positive thing. Any player could end up on any team and contract sizes, etc. would become a lot more interesting. I was sad when the NFL applied a cap because for the first few seasons the “parity” was really a nice way of saying there really weren’t any good teams left, but once franchises got a grip on the new system, after several seasons the NFL now has both true parity and quality teams. Of course, a cap system puts more pressure on a GM to make smart decisions, so as a Giants fan perhaps I shouldn’t encourage the idea. Yeah, nevermind.
I am not everyone. Too many fucking Junior G-men trying to be frugal with the inherited billions of the financially elite. A canard. A prevarication encouraged and promulgated by the Bud Selig’s of the world. The Giants could triple their payroll and not a single owner would have their standard of living affected one whit. There is no profit in joining a country club, in buying a yacht or a private Lear Jet. No addition to the bottom line in extravagant vacations, or other indulgences of the rich and not so famous. Simply bragging rights of buying and owning shit to impress people. Some of whom they may even know. Maybe a couple of whom may even actually be impressed. The purse strings of the elites is of no concern to me whatsoever.
As a fan, my only interest is having the leaseholders on the franchise of my choice spending as much money as possible to buy the best talent possible. It is entertainment. I want the best players in MLB on my team. The best hitters, the best catchers, the best pitchers, the best manager, the best announcers, the best ballpark. I want excellence. If I want baseball at its purest, most naive form, I will indulge myself in college, high school or other forms of purely for the “love of the game” aspects of baseball. But if I want to see the best, and am going to make a financial and emotional investment, I want it to be the best team that money can buy.
You see. I got spoiled by Eddie DeBartolo and Bill Walsh and the entire Niner Machine. Eddie D financed whatever Walsh wanted, bar the expense. Eddie D was interested in one thing only and that was being the best. Eddie D. came upon the heels of the Moribitos. Who always bitched about finances. And who always gave us mediocrity.
When is the last time you heard Peter Magowan, or Brian Sabaen talk about being the best? If they are not committed to being the best, then they need to turn this team over to somebody who is committed to being the best.